Making changes to an IP coach

[St.Michael]

Hi everybody.
Up here in Scandinavia, coaches with balconys in each end are common on most railways. By now I have 4, and have long been thinking of building a fift one. I have bought this one http://www.ipengineering.co.uk/page100.html and started to build it this way:
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Maybe it´s like "swearing in the church" to show this to many of you UK-people? My idea is that the doors amongst the sides, shall appear as windows..
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Now it is beeing treated with the first layers of paint.
Regards to all
Michael

[LnBmad]

Nice work! Why not model it as though there was once doors that have then been bolted shut when it was converted?

[bazzer42]

Thanks for posting Michael, I don't post enough but enjoy seeing how others work. You can always learn something.

[Andrew]

Very nice!

I've almost finished a less extreme modification of the same kit, to make it look a little more like the Ffestiniog's bogie carriages. That's going well enough, but this looks like really satisfying "bash", looking forward to seeing the finished model.

Are you planning to use the balcony rails supplied? They doesn't seem very strong (or especially elegant!) and I swapped mine for ones made from wire.

All the best,

Andrew.

[laalratty]

Nice work, good to see something different being attempted with these kits

[IrishPeter]

It isn't 'swearing in Church' at all for me as I am used to end balcony stock. In Britain, the "light railway" variety of narrow gauge line - e.g. C&MLR, the W&LLR, and the L&MVLR - generally had end balconies, as did the Southwold. Those on the C&M and the Leek and Manifold were large and quite swish, though they seem to have been a bit shy about installing steam heat. That might have been OK in Staffordshire, but in Kintyre???! It tends to be the older lines - the Festiniog, Talyllyn, NWNGR, and the IMR, which went with compartment stock.

In Ireland, about half of the NG lines started out with end balcony stock (and the rest with six-wheelers!) though some boxed them in later to make things a little less draughty. The Ballymena and Cushendall had some big radial axle eight wheelers that later went to the Ballycastle Railway which were even fitted with little coal stoves Scandanavian style! Unfortunately, none of them survived.

I like what you are doing. It is a break from the norm.

Cheers,
Peter in AZ

[St.Michael]

Hi friends. As I said before: Thank you for nice words, and thoughts:D
Andrew: I havent got to the balcony yet. I have ordered balconny railings from Garden Railway Specialists. Thinking that I´ll be using some parts of the original railing and combine it with the whitemetal parts. And to Irish Peter: A very fulfilling answer as always I must admit that I have no deeper knowledge in railwayhistory from Britain

In Britain, the "light railway" variety of narrow gauge line - e.g. C&MLR, the W&LLR, and the L&MVLR - generally had end balconies, as did the Southwold. Those on the C&M and the Leek and Manifold were large and quite swish, though they seem to have been a bit shy about installing steam heat. That might have been OK in Staffordshire, but in Kintyre???! It tends to be the older lines - the Festiniog, Talyllyn, NWNGR, and the IMR, which went with compartment stock.

It is more that the coach models that I´m wiling to pay for are mostley compartement coaches.
More pictures to come
Michael

[dougrail]

Question for you?: how many sheets of wood thick is this coach kit? I bought one kit which was three sheets thin and the wood warped

[St.Michael]

Dougrail: The kit is made up from varying thickness of the veneer and when I am trying to count it i get three layers. The kit is also built up in layers, so that the total thickness and gluing hopefully prevents it from warping. Question to you Dougrail: When will the warping eventually accour? In the kit from the beginning, or later after the model is built and in use?

Now I´m painting, first a layer of light gray followed with a colour called "dull red"



Regards to all

[dougrail]

My warping happened to the wood even before I'd assembled it...!!

Took itoutside so I could spray primer. Five minutes - shake can, get facemask on - bam, wood's alreacy curling.

[SapperAnt]

3-ply ply shouldn't really warp due to how it's made. And three layers laminated up (nine ply in total) should be pretty stable unless it was not straight ont he grain or it was very very long unsupported lengths when warping could occur if it was very very long with no support or similar e g a very long carriage with insufficient bracing........ but thats wierd.

[IrishPeter]

I have found that plywood usually behaves itself very well provided it is adequately braced. I usually use two layers of 3-ply with a brace about every 120-150mm and that seems to be solid enough. I do tend to thoroughly paint and varnish my stock as it keeps moisture out. That said, every now and again one does get a rogue sheet of plywood. All you can do then is watch it curl, if you do not discover the problem early enough to toss it.

Just as a side note...

British railway practice tends to be a bit insular. Being an Isle of Man Railway enthusiast I was dimly aware of the Norwegian 3'6" gauge systems as the IMR locomotives are a 3' gauge version of the locomotives built for Norway in 1866-72, and the chopper coupler was invented in Norway. Also more recently I have become interested in the Saxon 75cm gauge systems, and then Sweden has a lot of 'three foot' gauge (actually 3' Swedish, which is 891mm not 914mm) which kind of got me looking there too. One thing I have learned is that the British do not always have the best ideas. In some respects the Germans were miles ahead of us when it came to signalling. I find Norway and Sweden very interesting because of the blend of British and German ideas - mixed in with some local inventions - which make the whole thing intriguing.

Cheers,
Peter in AZ

[St.Michael]

Good evening. First of all, Thank you Irsih Peter for putting it so well:

I find Norway and Sweden very interesting because of the blend of British and German ideas - mixed in with some local inventions - which make the whole thing intriguing.

That´s exactly my thinking, but I will get in deep trouble, trying to express that in English
The coach is now getting the roof built

[IrishPeter]

From what bit I have seen of Norwegian practice, the standard gauge lines, back in the days of semaphore signalling, seem to have absorbed a good deal of German practice.  I would assume this is because most were built quite late, after German practice became the dominant influence.  IIRC, only the line from Oslo to the Swedish border was built to 1435mm gauge in the early days, and the internal lines were 1067mm gauge.  However, as traffic grew, and the gaps between railways were closed, and it became a railway system then most lines were either converted to 1435mm gauge or closed, and at some point the decision was made to make all new lines to standard gauge.  

I am still finding my way with Norwegian NG practice.  It seems akin to UK light railway practice, but a lot of the equipment is German.  I noticed that the 'Tertitten' used the typical German point indicators and levers, but the signage is obvious of local origin.  Very local in some cases!  I assume X on a white background for a level crossing <15 I assume means 15km/h over the diverging route, etc..  It is unfortunate that none of the remaining NG lines that I know of is of any great length, as I would have liked to have seen how they worked single line railways.  I suspect 'telephone block' under the direction of a route controller and the stationmasters, rather than the British Staff and Ticket or Electric tablet.

The coach is certainly coming on very nicely.  

Cheers,
Peter in AZ

[St.Michael]

Hi all.
Irish Peter:First I like to confess that my knowledge in signaling is equal to zero. But what I have read about the Urskog- Hølandbanen is that it was very simple and old-fashioned in it´s construction, with a low speed limit and had no special inventions or ideas in terms of traffic conducting..
The roof is almost finnished (I have added a cat ) I have not yet decided how to make it sit firmly, and still be removable.. Any ideas

Michael

[GTB]

The roof is almost finnished (I have added a cat )

Hi Michael,

Cats will sleep anywhere..... Mine aren't allowed in the workshop, as I can do without extracting metal splinters from their footpads. It doesn't stop them trying to get in there though.

I have not yet decided how to make it sit firmly, and still be removable.. Any ideas

I use a couple of methods for fixing a removable roof in place.

In this case, I'd probably fix a profiled piece of wood to the underside of the roof, inside the body at each end. Make it a neat fit, then run a couple of little screws through each coach end and into the piece fitted to the roof. If they are tucked in up under the overhang, they won't show.

My other method is to thread each end of a piece of thin brass rod (1/16" or 1.5mm), glue a block under the roof and tap a matching hole. Screw the rod into the roof and poke the other end through a hole in the floor and retain it with a nut. This method is good for closed vans, but is harder to hide in a passenger vehicle, although the rod is hard to see if it is chemically blackened.

I can probably find a couple of pics. if the written description isn't clear.

Graeme

[Andrew]

Now thee's a coincidence! When I saw Michael's post I started searching for one or yours Graeme, I knew it was something you did well. I got called away and now I've returned to my PC to find you'vereplied yourself, excellent!

Really like how your carriage is coming along Michael - my first thought was "Wiisbech and Upwell"...



Looking forward to seeing the finished product...

Andrew.

[IrishPeter]

I am a bit of a signal and telegraph nut as my great-grandfather was a signalman on the LNER, later British Railways, and I grew up in one of the last bastions of large scale semaphore signalling.

However, I model narrow gauge railways and they vary enormously as to what they were required to have in terms of signalling, and the arrangement can often be very basic. Lines operated by one engine in steam (OES) rarely need any signals at all, and even in the UK there was at least one long line - the Welsh Highland Railway - which had no signals at all. The working appendix to the Rule Book stated how passing loops and the single line staff were to be handled, and everyone went on their way rejoicing.

I would imagine that long single lines in Norway were handled by telephone block. Basically, there is a line controller who uses a fixed sequence of messages to organize the traffic over a particular single track route. The need for signalling is pretty minimal. The Tertitten (UHB) seems to mark level crossings, gradients, and speed restrictions - and not a great deal else. That would have been normal on a 75cm gauge line due to the low speeds.

My thought was not so much Wisbeach and Upwell Tramway as Cavan and Leitrim Railway when I looked at your carriage. Their were low slung with lots of small windows - almost as though the builders had stuck to the usual compartment stock window spacing regardless of the fact they were building long saloon carriages. It is coming out very nicely!

Cheers,
Peter in AZ

[MDLR]

I assume that at the moment it's loose fitting................. Can you add a crosspiece immediately inside the body of the coach at either end (inside the saloon would be best so it's not seen off the platform) then put a small screw though the ends into the crosspiece to hold the roof in place. This has the virtue that you can get back inside the coach if you ever need too.........................

[St.Michael]

Good evening.
The work is in a slow progress. I have followed the advice from Graeme

In this case, I'd probably fix a profiled piece of wood to the underside of the roof, inside the body at each end. Make it a neat fit, then run a couple of little screws through each coach end and into the piece fitted to the roof. If they are tucked in up under the overhang, they won't show.

Other things that has been done: Window glacing and the long-benches has been equipped with backrests.




Andrew: Thank you for the photo of the coach. It works for me as a kind of source for my modell. Only complain is that it doesn´t look ng..