Rolling Stock for the Far End Tramway

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FWLR
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Re: Rolling Stock for the Far End Tramway

Post by FWLR » Wed Dec 12, 2018 10:42 am

I do like your bold colours Peter.

Love that little hut too. I have put a brick base on a Model Town Water Tower and it certainly has made a huge difference....

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Re: Rolling Stock for the Far End Tramway

Post by IrishPeter » Wed Dec 12, 2018 3:01 pm

My usual railway palette is black, dark green, brown or "lake", grey - in short, colours that don't show the muck too much. The livery scheme for both my railways is relatively dark. The CLR, which is theoretically an offshoot of the NER/LNER, is basic black for locos; bauxite for fitted wagons (actually a reddish brown primer); and grey for unfitted. Departmental stock gets clobbered with either barn red, or grey (LNER used Oxford Blue - ironic given that Cambridge was on their system) depending on whether it is their exclusive possession, or the traffic department can nick it.

I only use bright colours for safety purposes - for example, loco buffer beams and brake van ends are red so that they can be seen when being moved around sidings and within station limits. If I ever get around to fitting dummy brake gear, then the brake handles will be white.

Cheers,
Peter in Va
Traffic Pattern? What pattern? Spuds out; grain in, but cattle, sheep and passengers are a lot less predictable.

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Re: Rolling Stock for the Far End Tramway

Post by Andrew » Thu Dec 13, 2018 8:52 am

I like the red ends too - I might well add some to my trusty (not to mention rusty) Mamod guards van when it receives its long-overdue overhaul. Apart from anything else it would add a touch of colour to winter goods trains, which would be rather nice when the garden's looking cold and drab. When I started making WHR wagons I initially baulked at the red paint, it seemed rather gaudy compared to my usual greys and browns, but actually I find I rather like it for that reason.

I like the shelter too, especially the roof. Actually, it's inspired me to make a stable for a colleague's camel, but that's one for another forum...

Looking forward to the next update,

Andrew.

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Re: Rolling Stock for the Far End Tramway

Post by philipy » Thu Dec 13, 2018 8:57 am

I do like the roof on that hut, very realistic finish.
Philip

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Re: Rolling Stock for the Far End Tramway

Post by Peter Butler » Thu Dec 13, 2018 1:51 pm

Andrew wrote: ↑Thu Dec 13, 2018 8:52 am ...... it's inspired me to make a stable for a colleague's camel, but that's one for another forum...

Andrew.
I have to ask.... what Forum has stables for camels amongst its subject headings.... sounds interesting!
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Re: Rolling Stock for the Far End Tramway

Post by Andrew » Thu Dec 13, 2018 1:59 pm

Peter Butler wrote: ↑Thu Dec 13, 2018 1:51 pm
Andrew wrote: ↑Thu Dec 13, 2018 8:52 am ...... it's inspired me to make a stable for a colleague's camel, but that's one for another forum...

Andrew.
I have to ask.... what Forum has stables for camels amongst its subject headings.... sounds interesting!
I'll let you know when I find one!

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Re: Rolling Stock for the Far End Tramway

Post by IrishPeter » Thu Dec 13, 2018 2:27 pm

philipy wrote: ↑Thu Dec 13, 2018 8:57 am I do like the roof on that hut, very realistic finish.
The roof on the hut is several hundred little wooden shingles. The Missus found a bag of doll's house shingles in a charity shop and hauled them home. The only catch is they were 1/12th scale, so every one gets cut into four - often very approximately - for use on the railway. It was a slightly tedious job, but not so bad when one is not on a schedule. I would have hated to spend a couple of solid hours on it.

As to the WHR goods stock... If I remember correctly, red oxide (brownish red) or red lead (almost orange when first applied) used to be a fairly common livery for fitted goods wagons, so SAR was not unusual in painting its suck brake wagons that colour. What surprises us about is that we are used to the British Railways convention of Bauxite (basically brown) for fitted, and grey for unfitted wagons, so red just isn't a wagon colour to us anymore. Bauxite replaced red oxide for fitted wagons on the LNER in the 1940s, and it was one area where their influence prevailed over Derby's.

Cheers,
Peter in Va
Traffic Pattern? What pattern? Spuds out; grain in, but cattle, sheep and passengers are a lot less predictable.

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Re: Rolling Stock for the Far End Tramway

Post by IrishPeter » Sat Dec 15, 2018 2:34 am

The last little bit of shingling on the waiting shelter was done yesterday. It needs ridge cap, barge boards, and possibly a noticeboard and a bench to complete.

The outside sides of the Saxon carriage were painted dark crimson lake this morning. I initially tried dark brown, but I found that a bit too sombre. I will have to see it in natural light before I decide if it needs toning down a bit, it looks quite bright in the basement - almost the Midland <spit> shade. However, if it is closer to the Midland colour that might not be a bad thing as that is roughly the colour of BR non-corridor stock, which would make the CLR's time period the 50s/early preservation.

The inside sides were cut yesterday and today and glued to the framework and outside side assembly this evening. Now we leave everything to dry for twelve hours; have a look at the wood pile; and then decide what to do next. Ideally it would be the underframe, but I still have not had the chance to get some 3/8th by 3/16th, so it is debateable whether I have sufficient timber for the underframe. If I have to postpone the underframe pending a visit to Harrisonburg, then I can get on with the body.

Cheers,
Peter in VA
Traffic Pattern? What pattern? Spuds out; grain in, but cattle, sheep and passengers are a lot less predictable.

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Re: Rolling Stock for the Far End Tramway

Post by IrishPeter » Fri Dec 21, 2018 2:45 am

Further progress with the current projects.

I decided that the brake van ought to be even more distinctive, so it ended up barn red with vermillion ends. Sorry it is a bit blurred.
Red BV
Red BV
IMG_4359.JPG (34.68 KiB) Viewed 5668 times
The sides, ends, and floor of the Saxon coach have been assembled and painted a deep maroon, which is somewhere between BR non-corridor stock maroon and the NER colour. Close enough!
Coach side view
Coach side view
IMG_4360.JPG (41.59 KiB) Viewed 5668 times
3/4 view
3/4 view
IMG_4361.JPG (44.93 KiB) Viewed 5668 times
I then decided to pop it up on a spare set of logging bogies...
The shell on logging bogies
The shell on logging bogies
IMG_4363.JPG (41.74 KiB) Viewed 5668 times
and then borrow the roof off a similarly sized vehicle to get something closer to the full effect.
Accommodation bogies
Accommodation bogies
IMG_4364.JPG (43.28 KiB) Viewed 5668 times
Then I thought to myself that it would look better on some track.
Seven window side
Seven window side
IMG_4365.JPG (43.78 KiB) Viewed 5668 times
And lastly, lined up with the road van.
With BV
With BV
IMG_4366.JPG (45.42 KiB) Viewed 5668 times
It still needs its sole bars and permanent bogies; drop lights, interior, and roof; then lastly hand rails. Like all good colonial railways I will probably be ordering from Blighty whatever I cannot scrounge or improvise locally. The interior will be fairly complex on this one as there is a small first class compartment; a lavatory compartment, and a third class saloon to fit out. Should keep me out of mischief for a while! I seem to have got into the habit of spend 30 to 90 minutes a day down there which is progressing things nicely.

Cheers,
Peter in Va
Last edited by IrishPeter on Sat Dec 22, 2018 12:15 am, edited 1 time in total.
Traffic Pattern? What pattern? Spuds out; grain in, but cattle, sheep and passengers are a lot less predictable.

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Re: Rolling Stock for the Far End Tramway

Post by LNR » Fri Dec 21, 2018 4:31 am

That Saxon coach is going to look nice Peter, nice livery colour too. I relate to the thought process, try
it on some bogies, roof, track etc. Gives you an idea of where its all heading.
Grant.

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Re: Rolling Stock for the Far End Tramway

Post by FWLR » Fri Dec 21, 2018 7:21 am

The coach is really very good. Impressed with your work Peter.

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Re: Rolling Stock for the Far End Tramway

Post by Andrew » Fri Dec 21, 2018 1:45 pm

LNR wrote: ↑Fri Dec 21, 2018 4:31 am I relate to the thought process, try
it on some bogies, roof, track etc. Gives you an idea of where its all heading.
Grant.
Yep, me too. I spend hours looking at half-finished models...

Looking great Peter, well done. The interior should be fun - I've always fancied building something with a side-corridor and compartments...

Cheers,

Andrew.

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Re: Rolling Stock for the Far End Tramway

Post by IrishPeter » Fri Dec 21, 2018 3:47 pm

This particular SAR-SAS narrow gauge carriage was largely a saloon with benches lengthways, as each bay is only about 1250mm, which would cause knee interlock with face to face seating. The first class passengers got a little compartment of their own though. Some of the other Saxon-built 3rds and 3rd/1st composites, the ones with nine windows a side, look as though they had conventional seating bays arranged 2+1. I would guess the lavatory version would have held 22-26, and the rest 25-29. It is not uncommon on German built stock to have a pair of inward looking benches just inside the saloon doors, which helps squeeze in a few more seats.

I suspect, but I have not found photos to support this yet, some British built compartment stock was semi-corridor to give access to the centre lav. compartment(s). If I model any of those it will be using stout cardboard for the sides because cutting that many windows either messes up my wrist, or else takes an inordinate period of time. I have been meaning to experiment with the old cardboard on a wooden frame technique from the heyday of Gauge 1 for a while. I have used cardboard laminate stock in S scale - a IMR coach I built years ago - and know that with proper treatment card resists the damp.

Cheers,
Peter in Va
Traffic Pattern? What pattern? Spuds out; grain in, but cattle, sheep and passengers are a lot less predictable.

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Re: Rolling Stock for the Far End Tramway

Post by IrishPeter » Sat Dec 29, 2018 4:24 pm

An unwritten rule in this house is that we hit the local big box craft store for the sales after Christmas. The wife was at her observant best spotting some rubberized 'cobble stone' mat which may have a future in the walls of some building for the outdoor line, whilst I found some plastic corrugated board, which is what I used as the basis for the little waiting shelter.

I also bought a 14" x 17" pad of Bristol board, just for sh!ts and grins, to see if the card building techniques I used years ago when I brief messed around with O-16.5 will work in our scale. If it does, I can envision doing a lot more card building as it is less wearing on the carpal tunnels. I can also envision using plywood for a stiff core, and then Bristol board for the more detailed bits.

Otherwise I have a bit of a tidy up in the Works, so I can now use both the bench and the work table apart from the inevitable line of stuff stacked along the back.

I think we are about due a photo update too.

Cheers,
Peter in VA
Traffic Pattern? What pattern? Spuds out; grain in, but cattle, sheep and passengers are a lot less predictable.

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Re: Rolling Stock for the Far End Tramway

Post by IrishPeter » Mon Dec 31, 2018 7:58 pm

p.s. Good news and bad news. The wife must be feeling better - I got busted for spray painting in the basement today! :lol:

Peter in Va
Traffic Pattern? What pattern? Spuds out; grain in, but cattle, sheep and passengers are a lot less predictable.

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Re: Rolling Stock for the Far End Tramway

Post by IrishPeter » Tue Jan 01, 2019 4:41 am

I decided to have a go at building a bogie covered wagon out of Bristol board. The ancestry is vaguely Victoria Narrow Gauge, but that is more in terms of dimensions than anything else.
Roof
Roof
Peter2.JPG (38.44 KiB) Viewed 6816 times
By the time I thought to take any photographs I had got to the laminating the roof stage. The body of the wagon consists of three layers of Bristol board laminated together with wooden corner posts, and further supports at the one-third, and two thirds points along the body of the wagon. There are four wooden roof stretchers corresponding to the wooden stiffeners in the wagon body.
Ready for paint
Ready for paint
Peter4.JPG (38.13 KiB) Viewed 6816 times
OK, let's stick it on some bogies and see how it looks before painting it... The roof is not stuck down yet as it has to be painted grey whilst the basic colour for the body is red oxide.
Painted - details next
Painted - details next
Peter10.JPG (45.75 KiB) Viewed 6816 times
As in this... dummy door hardware and handrails will be fabricated out of various bits of card and wire, painted black, and glued on. It also needs lettering - at least the tare, the load, and running number, even if I am a bit agnostic about the owner for the time being. The picture also shows the difference in size between 15mm scale - the brake van - and Ga. 3/LGB/1:22.5 scale.
MER Van
MER Van
Peter7.JPG (46.09 KiB) Viewed 6816 times
A chance remark earlier in the thread reminded me that I needed to repair the ducket on this Hurst Nelson MER brake van which has somehow managed to get itself transported to the Skebawn and Castleknox Railway.
Shelter
Shelter
Peter5.JPG (37.03 KiB) Viewed 6816 times
The little Norwegian style platform shelter - halts - for the use of, - has had its roof finished, but still needs a few finishing touches.
The Saxon Coach
The Saxon Coach
Peter1.JPG (48.03 KiB) Viewed 6816 times
The Saxon Coach is a bit of an orphan project at the moment as I built it to 16mm forgetting that I intend the Coverdale Light Railway to be 32mm gauge/1:22.5 scale to represent 2'6" gauge. It may end up allocated to S&CLR&T and running on 45mm bogies. I shall have to produce another in 17/32nds scale.
Brake Van
Brake Van
Peter9.JPG (47.25 KiB) Viewed 6816 times
And I am still trying to get a decent picture of the sentry box van with its red and barn red livery. I think it will get clobbered with the red oxide before long as that is closer to the original NER colours. Looks like Ole has been on the sauce...
NQD
NQD
Peter6.JPG (51.14 KiB) Viewed 6816 times
Oh, and the Newqidas are back in the mix for conversion into "3n2.5" rolling stock for the Coverdale Light Railway.

Cheers for now!
Peter in Va
Traffic Pattern? What pattern? Spuds out; grain in, but cattle, sheep and passengers are a lot less predictable.

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Re: Rolling Stock for the Far End Tramway

Post by LNR » Tue Jan 01, 2019 8:49 am

I can definitely see the Victorian origins in the bogie covered van Peter, don't know how
you keep track of the various scales you are using.
Grant.

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Re: Rolling Stock for the Far End Tramway

Post by ge_rik » Tue Jan 01, 2019 9:43 am

IrishPeter wrote: ↑Mon Dec 31, 2018 7:58 pm p.s. Good news and bad news. The wife must be feeling better - I got busted for spray painting in the basement today! :lol:

Peter in Va
A few weeks ago, I'd been spray painting in the conservatory while my wife was out. A fussy neighbour came to the front door with a message for my wife. Her house is always immaculately clean, ours isn't. She sniffed the air and said, "Oh, been polishing the furniture?" Not only did I get away with it, I think I actually went up in her estimation.

Rik
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Re: Rolling Stock for the Far End Tramway

Post by IrishPeter » Tue Jan 01, 2019 2:50 pm

LNR wrote: ↑Tue Jan 01, 2019 8:49 am I can definitely see the Victorian origins in the bogie covered van Peter, don't know how
you keep track of the various scales you are using.
Grant.
It isn't that bad - honest, Graeme! I have only made one clanger in 10 years, and that was with the Saxon coach, but it is recyclable onto the other line.

The Skebawn and Castleknox is 15mm scale/45mm gauge, which they seem to call Fn3 in the USA when they are not giving us brain cramps by calling it G. This works perfectly for a fictitious Irish line, so I have stuck with it, especially as 'Fn3' has decent support in the USA.

The CLR is 13.5mm scale and 32mm gauge, which is the same scale as Gauge 3 and LGB, also has the advantage of a respectable level of industry support in the USA. I suppose in NMRA over here would want to call it 3n30 - which looks too much like a "green diesel" era head code to me. My other interest beside Irish 3' is the sort of 2'6" gauge railways advocated around 1900 by E.R. Calthrop, and others. Ga.3 scale works for 2'6" gauge in that Ga. O scales out at about 2'4.5" which is a lot close to the correct gauge/scale relationship than either SM32 or SM45, though I did give 18mm:foot on 45mm gauge track some thought, but decided it was too big for the space available.

I just hope I do not get distracted by Norwegian 3'6" gauge again. That would be a straight forward LGB - 13.5mm scale/45mm gauge job.... ;) though 1:24 would be more accurate.

One thing that has to be considered is that I do tend to over think things!

Cheers,
Peter in Va
Traffic Pattern? What pattern? Spuds out; grain in, but cattle, sheep and passengers are a lot less predictable.

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Re: Rolling Stock for the Far End Tramway

Post by IrishPeter » Sat Jan 19, 2019 5:19 am

I have made a start on my first 'Ga.3n2.5' passenger vehicle using Bristol Board, though I did build a couple in 5.5mm scale 30 years ago using the directions in a book on model railways that "came out of the ark with Noah." The smaller scale stock was three laminations, but it looks like I will be doing at least four laminations this time, possibly five.

1. The outer skin.
2. Drop light frames.
3. Glazing
(4. Spacer)
5. The inner skin.

This should produce fairly rigid sides and ends. I am thinking the spacer layer will be unnecessary given the stiffness the glazing will impart, but I am still chewing on that fine point of design. However, the various layers will need to be painted before lamination, which means I am on the look out for a warm day - or a sustained absence of SWMBO from the house. ;) The colours will be maroon, light brown, nothing, and cream, or cream/light brown to reflect the sort of interior 1920s vehicles often had.

After that should come the partitions dividing the carriage into two vestibules, two lavatory compartments, and four passenger compartments. This coach is not symmetrical as the 3rd class half is about a foot shorter than the 1st class. This has driven me quietly nuts at the drawing out stage I basically drew one side upside down in order to get the doors and windows in the right place as that proved to be the easiest to do. I just hope I kept the paper with the dimensions noted on it in case I need to do another composite.

Pics in a day or two.

Cheers,
Peter in Va
Traffic Pattern? What pattern? Spuds out; grain in, but cattle, sheep and passengers are a lot less predictable.

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