Live Diesel 1/12th scale

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dewintondave
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Live Diesel 1/12th scale

Post by dewintondave » Thu Feb 21, 2013 7:15 am

Dear All,

I'm a 45 mm gauge man. I've moved up from 16mm scale. My first foray into a larger scale was my 24 mm scale George Henry DeWinton. Now I've decided to go the whole hog and switch to 12th scale. I had thought about resurrecting Gauge 2 (2 inch gauge), but I don't mind being a little under gauge, at least it will look narrow gauge.

A couple of years ago I bought an O.S four stroke model car engine via eBay. I've just fired it up in my test chassis. I'm running-in the the engine on a super rich setting, the garden was engulfed in the lovely castor oil smoke. My current project is making a muffler for the exhaust, at present it's just a straight through pipe, and is too noisy.

My plans are based on Dave Watkins' "Detritus". The chassis has no clutch at present, and only forward gear, it's being used to trial the required gear ratio. The primary reduction is via worm and wheel, then a spur gear reduction.

Image

Best wishes,

David Bousfield.

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Post by tom_tom_go » Thu Feb 21, 2013 10:42 am

Good looking beast so far, keep us posted please on progress :)

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Post by Stuvon » Thu Feb 21, 2013 5:45 pm

Now that's what I call engineering :!: :D

I'm assuming that is a car spec OS 20 or 26 Four Stroke?

I have only ever seen one of those on ebay with a pull start in the last couple of years and it went too high for my budget!

I'm very temped to make a radio controlled diesel-electric but on a BO-BO chassis probably based on Vale of FFestiniog (yes I know V-O-F is a diesel-hydraulic!). I have a vague plan for the engine throttle to control itself based on the electrical load the traction motors are experiencing.

Do you have any issues with vibration?
Last edited by Stuvon on Fri Feb 22, 2013 6:54 am, edited 1 time in total.
Stuart
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Post by dewintondave » Fri Feb 22, 2013 5:10 am

Stuvon:80459 wrote:I'm assuming that is a car spec OS 20 or 26 Four Stroke?
That's right.
Do you have any issues with vibration?
It certainlly vibrates enough :D No fastener has come loose yet.

Best wishes,
David.

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Post by dewintondave » Sun Feb 24, 2013 5:30 am

Here's a couple of videos. The first showing the very first starting of the engine. This video ended in catastrophe as the rear universal coupling broke as I blipped the throttle. They both have covers on them now so they can't break-out.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w6kgll3PU5s

The second video is of the first run on the line. I recorded speeds of 7.5 & 9.5 scale MPH. I try to run slowly.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VAau9DXbA4A

Best wishes,
Dave.

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Post by LMS-Jools » Sun Feb 24, 2013 8:49 pm

Most impressive, very nice slow running. 8)

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Post by Busted Bricks » Sun Feb 24, 2013 9:09 pm

It is better to have the worm gear reduction in the final stage of the reduction gearing. It will wear rapidly in its current position.

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Post by Stuvon » Sun Feb 24, 2013 9:25 pm

Looks fantastic so far!

Adding a clutch should be fairly easy, although setting it to engage at the correct RPM could be fun.

How are you going to change direction?
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Post by dewintondave » Mon Feb 25, 2013 6:29 am

Busted Bricks:80536 wrote:It is better to have the worm gear reduction in the final stage of the reduction gearing. It will wear rapidly in its current position.
Hmmm, we'll have to see. But, this is a test chassis, built to test the required gear ratio. I may omit the worm gear reduction in the end and switch to all spur gear plus bevel gears. Ideally the transmission should be under footplate height, or perhaps with a narrower central tunnel for the driver to straddle.
Stuvon:80537 wrote:Looks fantastic so far!

Adding a clutch should be fairly easy, although setting it to engage at the correct RPM could be fun.

How are you going to change direction?
Thank you. I'll go for a manual clutch, operating from a lever. Gearing will be used for reversing

Best wishes,
Dave.

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Post by Anton Richards » Mon Feb 25, 2013 5:03 pm

Hi Dave

First of all ide like to say well done on what you have achieved, that looks pretty impressive, and i am a HUGE fan of what David Watkins has achieved with his detritus locomotive.

I am very interested in this build, as im not sure if you are aware or not, but I am also playing around with live diesel, and I currently have 2 locomotives, and im working on my third. The third loco has an os 4S 40 engine, but unlike yours and Davids, mine are all diesel electric, as opposed to diesel mechanical, as at the moment, that would be pushing my abilities over their limit.

Just in case you havnt seen, heres a video and check out my channel, as you talk about using a clutch, and as youl see, in the later videos, my latest version of the loco has a clutch with gearing.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hwTlJ031pDk

Where abouts are you based?

Keep up the good work.

Anton
Live Diesel Locomotives by Anton Richards

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Post by dewintondave » Tue Feb 26, 2013 6:24 am

Anton Richards:80552 wrote:Hi Dave

I am very interested in this build, as im not sure if you are aware or not, but I am also playing around with live diesel, and I currently have 2 locomotives, and im working on my third. The third loco has an os 4S 40 engine, but unlike yours and Davids, mine are all diesel electric, as opposed to diesel mechanical, as at the moment, that would be pushing my abilities over their limit.

Anton
Thank you Anton. Yes, I've seen your live diesel activity. It has encouraged me get my act together and get started.

I've just updated my location, so it should be displayed now.

Best wishes,
Dave.

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Post by dewintondave » Sat Mar 02, 2013 11:16 pm

It's taken two weeks to make a silencer for the engine. I did a bit of research into automotive silencers. First I had to order a strange metric die to cut a M9 x 0.75 thread to fit the cylinder head.

The outer shell was rolled from 0.5 mm brass sheet and silver soldered, then a central baffle plate was silver soldered in. Then the endplates, and then the bushes, and finally the drain tube.

I've fitted copper tubes over the universal couplings to prevent them from bursting apart again.

Here's a video of yesterdays run with the silencer in place. It works a treat. The drain dribbles the excess oil down onto the ballast. There are pictures of the silencer at the start of the video.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r9qGCTv07j8

Best wishes,
Dave

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Post by dewintondave » Sun Mar 10, 2013 3:04 am

I thought I'd try a massive secondary flywheel in a handy empty spot at the rear of the loco. It wasn't a success, it slowed the motor down a bit - needed more throttle, and always came loose. When still clamped securely it didn't improve running much. I've taken it off now. These are the latest photo's.

Image

Image

I had a run yesterday and today. One thing that has changed is the engines compression, it's much higher now. Yesterday I started leaning out the engine to see the difference in running. It certainly smoked less and the throttle needed decreasing to maintain the same speed. But, in the end there was no advantage in running lean, it wouldn't run slower. It's much safer to run rich, but it is safe anyway as I'm using castor oil. The garden smells fantastic...

Best wishes,
Dave.

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Post by dewintondave » Mon Mar 25, 2013 6:41 am

These two videos show the effectiveness of the new silencer:

First run on the track:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VAau9DXbA4A

New silencer:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8rOLsg2fSXk

I have bought one of these non-contact IR laser point infrared digital thermometer temp guns from our friends at ebay.  Excellent service, postage free from China.  I want to test the engine temperatures.

Image

Today I had an extended run of the loco and experimented with leaning-out the engine.  Normally the engine is being run at a super rich setting of needle valve open 2 turns.  I leaned-out the engine until the needle valve was only open 1.5 turns.  On the super rich setting the cylinder temperature was about 115 deg C, and fully leaned-out it was about 135 deg C.  The cylinder head temperature was over 150 deg C.

Fully leaned-out there was minimal smoke, which is most unsatisfactory 8)

Best wishes,
Dave.

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Post by Stuvon » Mon Mar 25, 2013 8:47 pm

Interesting to see the running temperatures, and it's nice to get an idea of what to aim for when the loco has body work. when you do eventually get round to encasing the engine you will probably need to consider forced cooling.

The engine was originally designed to be forced cooled by an airplane propeller or in an RC car you generally need to keep moving to prevent overheating.
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