TVT - The Mule with No Name Part 2

A place for discussing battery-electric locomotives, whether they're diesel, steam or even electric outline
Post Reply
User avatar
GTB
Driver
Driver
Posts: 1550
Joined: Sat Mar 05, 2011 2:46 pm
Location: Australia

TVT - The Mule with No Name Part 2

Post by GTB » Sun Dec 15, 2019 4:23 am

This loco was the second to join the collection, eight years ago now. Since then I've built a track and recently decided to replace the manual speed control with r/c to make it easier to rescue steam locos that have stopped at the back of the track.

I finally found the right size of 'Round Tuit' and went for a drive to the last RC shop left in this area to get a few bits needed to complete the project this weekend. It has been in pieces for a couple of weeks and I wanted to clear the modelling desk before Christmas.

The r/c gear came from Tony Walsham at RCS at at this years GSSU a month or so ago. A Fosworks Cobra-160 ESC and one of Tony's new auto-binding DSM2 Rx. For the Tx I used the RCS TX-1 that I already had.

The first job was to remove the manual speed control and rewire the loco control panel. The result is shown in the photo.

Fowler-rc1.jpg
Fowler-rc1.jpg (149.36 KiB) Viewed 6622 times

The old speed control pot and reversing switch were replaced with bits from the scrap box to maintain the cab appearance, as the original speed control was disguised as the handbrake and the reversing switch was masquerading as the throttle. Reading left to right, the little green object is the dud potentiometer, then the old switch, then the existing charge/run switch and finally the charging socket on the right.

The yellow disc under the charge run switch is a PTC resistor. This is a solid state device that limits the current drawn from the battery to a very low level once tripped, but will reset when the high current draw is removed. Cheap protection for the expensive battery and ESC.

The old motor and ESC connections were replaced with JST plugs and a new battery clip was fitted. The control panel and cab were then refitted to the chassis with the new leads fed through a suitable opening at the bottom of the cab front. The three plugs are the battery connector, the JST-M plug to connect the motor to the ESC and the JST-F plug to connect the power from the charge/run switch to the ESC. The next photo shows this arrangement.

Fowler-rc2.jpg
Fowler-rc2.jpg (155.81 KiB) Viewed 6622 times

The next photo shows the battery, ESC and Rx plugged in and stuck to a simple polystyrene sheet frame with double sided tape to stop things rattling around and also keep the wiring runs neat.

Fowler-rc3.jpg
Fowler-rc3.jpg (188.81 KiB) Viewed 6622 times

I used this installation to test one of Tony's new auto-binding AB-RA Rx which worked like a charm straight out of the package, but was bought to be fitted into another loco. The Rx shown in the final assembly photo. is a Deltang RX-102(AB), which was cascaded down into this loco. The Deltang Rx was a bit more of a fiddle to get set up, but does the job.

R/C installations and I don't usually get along well, but this one was easy. Everything worked out of the box and there was no monkeying about replacing dodgy motors, spike suppression, etc. etc. etc.......... :roll: I didn't even have to email Tony at RCS for help. ;)

The only speed bump on the road to progress was the JST plugs and leads. Simple enough you'd think, but when I got them home, instead of there being one male and one female plug in the bag, someone, somewhere, had packed two male plugs. I took them back and all the packets in the shop were the same. Luckily they found me an alternative type of lead, but the distributors ears will still be burning........

The last photo shows the loco running a light engine test on a gloomy afternoon in Melbourne. The loco doesn't run any better than it did with manual control, but I don't have to bend over low to the ground to access the controls now, which is getting more difficult to do.

Fowler-rc4.jpg
Fowler-rc4.jpg (242.26 KiB) Viewed 6622 times

Regards,
Graeme
Last edited by GTB on Mon Dec 16, 2019 3:22 am, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
LNR
Driver
Driver
Posts: 1533
Joined: Sat Feb 27, 2016 5:26 am
Location: Australia

Re: TVT - The Mule with No Name Part 2

Post by LNR » Sun Dec 15, 2019 6:47 am

What size was that "Round Tuit" and could I borrow it when your finished with it please !!.
Grant.

User avatar
Mitch stack
Trainee Fireman
Trainee Fireman
Posts: 231
Joined: Tue Sep 05, 2017 9:43 am
Location: Australia

Re: TVT - The Mule with No Name Part 2

Post by Mitch stack » Sun Dec 15, 2019 8:04 am

Seeing this making me even more Tempted to buy myself a Fowler ;) i have ordered one from essel and is due in July/August Next year Hopefully.

Mitch
Mitch - Cockatoo Creek Tramway

User avatar
ge_rik
Administrator
Administrator
Posts: 6497
Joined: Sun Oct 25, 2009 10:20 pm
Location: Cheshire
Contact:

Re: TVT - The Mule with No Name Part 2

Post by ge_rik » Sun Dec 15, 2019 9:40 am

Lovely looking little loco, (he said alliteratively.....🤔)
Is the body brass? Just wondering how it might affect the rx.

Rik
------------------------
Peckforton Light Railway - Blog Facebook Youtube

User avatar
tom_tom_go
Driver
Driver
Posts: 4824
Joined: Wed Feb 23, 2011 3:08 am
Location: Kent, UK
Contact:

Re: TVT - The Mule with No Name Part 2

Post by tom_tom_go » Sun Dec 15, 2019 10:06 am

I have used Deltang in all the live steamers I have owned and never had issues with signal.

User avatar
GTB
Driver
Driver
Posts: 1550
Joined: Sat Mar 05, 2011 2:46 pm
Location: Australia

Re: TVT - The Mule with No Name Part 2

Post by GTB » Sun Dec 15, 2019 10:29 am

LNR wrote: Sun Dec 15, 2019 6:47 am What size was that "Round Tuit" and could I borrow it when your finished with it please !!.
Grant.
Use it wisely........ 8)

078A6A82-9364-4E75-9FCD-5049D0F701F0.jpeg
078A6A82-9364-4E75-9FCD-5049D0F701F0.jpeg (78.21 KiB) Viewed 6592 times

Graeme

User avatar
GTB
Driver
Driver
Posts: 1550
Joined: Sat Mar 05, 2011 2:46 pm
Location: Australia

Re: TVT - The Mule with No Name Part 2

Post by GTB » Sun Dec 15, 2019 12:00 pm

ge_rik wrote: Sun Dec 15, 2019 9:40 am Is the body brass? Just wondering how it might affect the rx.
The cab of the Mule is brass, but the Rx is in the hood which has resin sides, resin radiator and an aluminium top, which doesn't seem to affect the Rx. Range is at least 70’, as that is how far I can get from the track and still be on my own property.

The Garratt had very limited range when I got it. The Rx was completely inside the front tank and it was an aircraft type Rx with 'fail safe' that couldn't be turned off, which made things worse. It took a lot of experimentation to get the range up to a reasonable figure. The solution was to fit a Deltang RX-102-1(AB)LR with the working part of the long aerial outside the water tank disguised as a plastic vent pipe. The range went from less than 20’ to about 70’.

The Walker railmotor has all brass bodywork and even with all the window openings, the maximum range I can get with a long range Rx is about 60’.

Regards,
Graeme

User avatar
GTB
Driver
Driver
Posts: 1550
Joined: Sat Mar 05, 2011 2:46 pm
Location: Australia

Re: TVT - The Mule with No Name Part 2

Post by GTB » Mon Dec 16, 2019 2:59 am

Mitch stack wrote: Sun Dec 15, 2019 8:04 am Seeing this making me even more Tempted to buy myself a Fowler ;)
Just to give you something to look forward to, these photos were taken earlier this year when I was testing the new track. I ran all the rollingstock around a few times to make sure there were no issues with the turnouts and the then manually controlled Mule was rostered.

Running a civil engineering train. The v-tippers are Binnie kits.

Sixth Run 4.jpg
Sixth Run 4.jpg (307.03 KiB) Viewed 6540 times

Running on the timber tram (it thinks it is a Kelly & Lewis diesel....). This train is all the timber bogies on the line and it just walked away with them.

Sixth Run 3.jpg
Sixth Run 3.jpg (242.28 KiB) Viewed 6540 times

Graeme

User avatar
ge_rik
Administrator
Administrator
Posts: 6497
Joined: Sun Oct 25, 2009 10:20 pm
Location: Cheshire
Contact:

Re: TVT - The Mule with No Name Part 2

Post by ge_rik » Mon Dec 16, 2019 9:29 am

Impressive hauling power.

Reminds me of an occasion when I went to a local 16mm NGM with one of my steam outline battery locos. The vast majority of members attending had brought their live steamers. No one seemed at all interested in my efforts (apart from the guy who invited me) and when anyone did engage me in conversation, the live steamers repeatedly told me how powerful their locos were. Not one of them thought to ask me how much my loco would pull in comparison - they just made the assumption it wouldn't be as powerful.

If only I'd taken a few more items of rolling stock!



Rik
------------------------
Peckforton Light Railway - Blog Facebook Youtube

User avatar
tom_tom_go
Driver
Driver
Posts: 4824
Joined: Wed Feb 23, 2011 3:08 am
Location: Kent, UK
Contact:

Re: TVT - The Mule with No Name Part 2

Post by tom_tom_go » Mon Dec 16, 2019 9:59 am

When this question ever comes up Rik in group meets people normally benchmark 'pulling power' on if a electric loco can pull a dead steamer or not :roll:

User avatar
GTB
Driver
Driver
Posts: 1550
Joined: Sat Mar 05, 2011 2:46 pm
Location: Australia

Re: TVT - The Mule with No Name Part 2

Post by GTB » Mon Dec 16, 2019 12:19 pm

ge_rik wrote: Mon Dec 16, 2019 9:29 am the live steamers repeatedly told me how powerful their locos were.
Most of them probably don't know what their loco can really pull, they are just true believers in the ‘power’ of steam......... :roll:

All other things being equal, a battery electric will have a greater drawbar pull than a steam loco with the same weight on the drivers. This is because an electric motor and gearbox produce more even torque at the rail than two double acting steam cylinders.

The Motor Mule will pull my Garratt in mid gear, plus it's train of ten bogie wagons. None of my steamers can do that and even the large 6 coupled steamers struggle with just the train.

We could also mention the appalling energy efficiency of miniature steam locos, <0.1% compared to around 10% for a battery electric.

Regards,
Graeme

User avatar
BorisSpencer
Fireman
Fireman
Posts: 251
Joined: Thu Apr 05, 2018 2:36 pm
Location: East Northants

Re: TVT - The Mule with No Name Part 2

Post by BorisSpencer » Mon Dec 16, 2019 12:35 pm

I suspect comparisons are being made with small battery electric kits running off a couple of AA or AAA batteries, with little weight, and frequently 2 wheel drive.
I have to admit, until I started building a recovery loco, my battery locos were purely for pulling a few wagons around for show during gaps in the 'proper' steam services.

User avatar
tom_tom_go
Driver
Driver
Posts: 4824
Joined: Wed Feb 23, 2011 3:08 am
Location: Kent, UK
Contact:

Re: TVT - The Mule with No Name Part 2

Post by tom_tom_go » Mon Dec 16, 2019 1:35 pm

The little 0-4-0 Brandbright Circket I use to own while running 12v would push and pull my Roundhouse Silver Lady even with the apparent 'drag' caused by the SSP Slomo.

The metal chassis version of Accucraft Baguley Drewry I had proves Graeme's point:


User avatar
GTB
Driver
Driver
Posts: 1550
Joined: Sat Mar 05, 2011 2:46 pm
Location: Australia

Re: TVT - The Mule with No Name Part 2

Post by GTB » Wed Dec 18, 2019 11:27 am

BorisSpencer wrote: Mon Dec 16, 2019 12:35 pm I suspect comparisons are being made with small battery electric kits running off a couple of AA or AAA batteries.
No, what Rik struck was a group of live steamers of the type that look down their noses at any model that doesn't boil water.

Even worse in their eyes, Rik had the temerity to make his model look like a steam loco, which is completely beyond the pale to some of these types. Luckily they are fairly rare in the garden railway hobby, but you run into them now and again.

Graeme

User avatar
tom_tom_go
Driver
Driver
Posts: 4824
Joined: Wed Feb 23, 2011 3:08 am
Location: Kent, UK
Contact:

Re: TVT - The Mule with No Name Part 2

Post by tom_tom_go » Wed Dec 18, 2019 8:42 pm

GTB wrote: Wed Dec 18, 2019 11:27 am Luckily they are fairly rare in the garden railway hobby, but you run into them now and again.

Graeme
Unfortunately, I met too many which impacted my decision to leave the hobby and the 16mm NGM association.

User avatar
ge_rik
Administrator
Administrator
Posts: 6497
Joined: Sun Oct 25, 2009 10:20 pm
Location: Cheshire
Contact:

Re: TVT - The Mule with No Name Part 2

Post by ge_rik » Thu Dec 19, 2019 8:46 am

There does seem to be some sort of snobbery in certain circles, but at the end of the day I believe we all gain our own satisfaction from doing what we enjoy most about our hobby.

I really admire the ingenuity and skill of fellow modellers regardless of their chosen power source. I am equally impressed by those who construct a live steam loco entirely from scratch as I am by someone who creates a battery powered loco from plastic or someone who realistically weathers an off the shelf track powered model.

Incidentally, I came across these figures for the relative thermal efficiency of full scale railway locomotives. Not sure how the figures are calculated, but interesting nonetheless.

Steam typical best circa 12%
Diesel typical best circa 36%
Electric typical best circa 92% (excludes grid transmission losses)

Does make one wonder why successive UK govts keep kicking their heels about electrifying sections of our railways.

Rik

PS Sorry, Graeme, I seem to have drifted your thread somewhat. Your Mule is a prime example of what I admire about fellow modellers capabilities in our hobby
------------------------
Peckforton Light Railway - Blog Facebook Youtube

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 5 guests