LKM GRS Diesel - Now finished with loads of pictures

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LKM GRS Diesel - Now finished with loads of pictures

Post by -steves- » Mon Nov 19, 2018 12:48 pm

I have recently acquired a little LKM GRS diesel like the one below along with 9 matching tipper wagons. It has had the motor upgrade and I would like to turn this into a little RC loco.

My question is this, has anyone on here ever converted one of these to RC, what did they use, how did they fit it all in, etc, pictures would be awesome. The motor is in a very inconvenient place so curious as to what others may have done.

My thoughts at the moment is to use 3 x 18350 Li-Lo batteries, putting each one in a battery holder and placing them where ever I can fit them. Then add a Deltang RX, either an RX65c or maybe even try the smaller Rx61c? Simple but quite effective as I have used similar setups with 18650 batteries in a number of locos now.

It has lights fitted and came with some upgraded LED's, but these are both white. Should I have these as directional so it shines white on whichever direction it's going and the other turns off, swap them out for dual colour LED's and have them swap over for which direction it's going, or leave them both white and on all the time?

Any help appreciated.
Thanks

Image
Last edited by -steves- on Sun Nov 25, 2018 10:09 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: LKM GRS Diesel

Post by ge_rik » Mon Nov 19, 2018 3:41 pm

Hi Steves
I've not converted one of these but I know my successor at RC Trains (Phil) was involved in the initial trials at fitting RC to them. The RC system which GRS use is Deltang - I think it's now being done by either Chuffed2Bits or Micron. Not certain. I could check with Phil. I'm sure he would know what's being used and/or what he advised. I know he's laid hands on one of them,

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Re: LKM GRS Diesel

Post by -steves- » Mon Nov 19, 2018 3:49 pm

Rik.

Once again you are my knight in shining armour and have come to my rescue :) You are indeed a world full of knowledge. If you could chase Phil for any info and ask him to post it here, that would be fantastic.

You know me and RC these days, Deltang based all the way :)

Cheers
Steve
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Re: LKM GRS Diesel

Post by Dasher » Mon Nov 19, 2018 8:30 pm

There were two or three of converted LKMs on display at the Yorkshire Show this year. I have an unconverted, snail motor version and so am interested too. I talked to Fosworks as I'd probably use the Mamod motor as well. The stand next to Fosworks also had one. I think that it was the stand belonging to the people in Huddersfield with the permanent indoor railway but can't be 100% certain.

I'd be very interested to see how you get on.

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Re: LKM GRS Diesel

Post by -steves- » Mon Nov 19, 2018 8:47 pm

ge_rik wrote: Mon Nov 19, 2018 3:41 pm Hi Steves
I've not converted one of these but I know my successor at RC Trains (Phil) was involved in the initial trials at fitting RC to them. The RC system which GRS use is Deltang - I think it's now being done by either Chuffed2Bits or Micron. Not certain. I could check with Phil. I'm sure he would know what's being used and/or what he advised. I know he's laid hands on one of them,

Rik
Rik

Which sound card would you recommend for this sort of thing, the MTronics one just seems a tad over priced, just looking for something to do the job really and of course space is an issue.

Thanks
Steve
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Re: LKM GRS Diesel

Post by ge_rik » Tue Nov 20, 2018 8:45 am

-steves- wrote: Mon Nov 19, 2018 8:47 pm
Rik

Which sound card would you recommend for this sort of thing, the MTronics one just seems a tad over priced, just looking for something to do the job really and of course space is an issue.

Thanks
Steve
Hi Steve
GRS use the Mtroniks card and it is probably the best for its price. Acme cards are cheaper but the sound isn't related to speed and the card is bigger so not sure if it would fit.

Just tried accessing the Acme website and it doesn't seem to be running - http://www.acmesteam.co.uk/sounds.html
Anyone know if Mike is still trading or if his site has moved?

Just thought. Are you looking at the right cards on the MTroniks website? There are some really expensive ones and then there are the others which are around £60 which are what we use. Just tried accessing their site and my virus checker won't let me in as their security certificate has expired. Don't seem to be having much success this morning.
https://www.mtroniks.net/prod/Sound-Sys ... d5mSDT.htm

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Re: LKM GRS Diesel

Post by tom_tom_go » Tue Nov 20, 2018 10:44 am

I have used the MTroniks boat sound modules and Deltang R/C in my Brandbright Circket:


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Re: LKM GRS Diesel

Post by -steves- » Tue Nov 20, 2018 9:32 pm

ge_rik wrote: Tue Nov 20, 2018 8:45 am
-steves- wrote: Mon Nov 19, 2018 8:47 pm
Rik

Which sound card would you recommend for this sort of thing, the MTronics one just seems a tad over priced, just looking for something to do the job really and of course space is an issue.

Thanks
Steve
Hi Steve
GRS use the Mtroniks card and it is probably the best for its price. Acme cards are cheaper but the sound isn't related to speed and the card is bigger so not sure if it would fit.

Just tried accessing the Acme website and it doesn't seem to be running - http://www.acmesteam.co.uk/sounds.html
Anyone know if Mike is still trading or if his site has moved?

Just thought. Are you looking at the right cards on the MTroniks website? There are some really expensive ones and then there are the others which are around £60 which are what we use. Just tried accessing their site and my virus checker won't let me in as their security certificate has expired. Don't seem to be having much success this morning.
https://www.mtroniks.net/prod/Sound-Sys ... d5mSDT.htm

Rik
I seem to have found the right ones now at a much better price, many thanks for the link Rik. The site worked perfectly for me, no idea why.

Just waiting on all the parts to turn up now so I can make a start :D
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Re: LKM GRS Diesel

Post by -steves- » Tue Nov 20, 2018 9:33 pm

tom_tom_go wrote: Tue Nov 20, 2018 10:44 am I have used the MTroniks boat sound modules and Deltang R/C in my Brandbright Circket:

Thats the same one I am using in my Baguley and is now the same one as I will be using in the LKM, sounds great doesn't it :D :thumbleft:
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Re: LKM GRS Diesel

Post by -steves- » Sun Nov 25, 2018 7:04 am

Right, bit of a bulk update, this may be a long post, however if you have one of these it might prove very useful.

The LKM Ns2f is now finished. Quick bit of advise, unless you like fiddly, tight wiring where you have to shoehorn everything in, send this one off to a professional to do, given the choice again, I probably would. The end result is a fantastic running, great sounding little loco that I could not be happier with.

So, the parts I personally used to do this from a standard factory loco are.

Motor upgrade
LED upgrade
RC Trains (Deltang) RX65c
RC Trains TX24 (you may already have this or another type of TX, but in this instance this is the one I used and the programming is for this setup only)
3 x 18350 batteries (eBay)
3 x 18350 battery holders (had to order direct from Germany, could not find these in the UK)
MTroniks digisound 5m(Small Diesel Tug) (MTroniks direct website)
A small speaker that fits in the front of the grill (moody teenager)
Lots of little bits of wire
Heatshrink
Charging socket
On/off switch with 3 connectors
A bucket load of patience.

All pictures at the end due to this will be a long post.

Firstly swap the motor out and remove all the wiring, switches speed controller etc.

Next the fiddly little lights. The originals will pull out intact from behind, the new ones will require the lenses removing and putting in from the fronts. lenses were glued back in using canopy glue which dries clear. All wiring will require new double sided tape to hold in place as the original has lost its tackiness. For me the anodes were joined and receive a single supply from the battery using one of the resistors in the pack. I only needed one as the lights will be directional and it will switch from front to back as it moves in that direction. The RX 65c has this built in using pads A & B which are a 0v / disconnect state depending on direction. No programming is required for this. The Cathodes go to each respect pad on the RX 65c. I used a cutup servo extension cable for the 3 way connector, so positive in the middle and the two negatives on the outside, this was I can removed the body easily.

The speaker was salvaged from my sons Xbox headset which he broke in a mood the other day, so for me a no cost option, thanks Mike :) This was glued into the front of the loco with a small red JST connector, again, so this plugs onto the sound card and makes the body easily removable.

The RX65c for me is set to Low Off. this means that the direction knob controls only the direction it goes, not any speed, whereas the speed knob controls zero to full speed, to change direction, you stop, change the direction knob, the use the speed knob again for full control. This gives you more control over the loco as you have more steps doing it this way, just my preference as thats how all my steam loco's are setup and it makes sense to keep them all the same. This option can be changed using the "paperclip" changes on the RX 65c, see the Deltang website for more details. I also reprogrammed the RX 65c to use an additional channel, this has taken many conversations in the past to achieve but works well. I use channel 5 (the bind button) for the horn, this can be done with a 1k resistor from pad C directly to to the sound card. I then used pad 8 for the engine start / stop. This was reprogrammed on the RX (reprogramming can be done using a TX21 or a Prog4 card, I use a prog 4 card attached to the PC, see the Deltang website for using this). The settings given were 3,8,2,7,3. This means that type 3, on pad 8, using latching (latching is required for continuous engine running until pressed again) using channel 7, On when channel is mid. Again, see the Deltang website for details of the massive programming options available. The RX65c was held in place against the motor using double sided tape. The antenna was placed downwards with a small hole drilled into the base of the chassis so the antenna comes out underneath the loco. Motor connectors direct to the motor, using only a cm to a couple of cm of cable.

The TX 24 I have added another usable channel to. This was done using an additional single button like the bind button. The wiring for this is complicated and I won't go into it on this thread as it deserves a thread of it's own. Message me if you want to go down this route, it is not the only option available, Rik on here has lots of details in his blog site about doing this.

The batteries did not exactly fit the holders, well they did but the positive side was too large to touch the connectors, so I soldered a "blob" of solder onto the positive connectors to extend them so the touched. I then wired the double holder to the single holder, giving me a fully charged voltage of 12.6v between the 3 batteries. This I put on a red JST connector in case I needed to remove the batteries. The batteries are simply held in with strong double sided tape (same as what is used for car number plates), they really can't go far anyway.

The sound card. pretty straight forward using the instructions supplied, I ditched the large connector it comes with a went for individual connectors, using small JST internals and shrink wrap, this just saved a little space and every mm/thou counts on this one. Power taken directly after the switch, same as the RX. two wires to the motor. Two wires to the RX pads as mentioned above. Speaker on a JST connector as mentioned above. Sound card was placed on it's side and again held in with double sided tape, you really don't need anything else as nothing can move anyway.

Charging play and switch were then installed. The original switch hole was drill out slightly and moved over to the side slightly to allow space for the charging socket to fit. These are wired as standard and have a resetting fuse inline of the batteries for protection.

Simply screw it back together and enjoy. If you are tackling one of these, please feel free to ask me anything along the way and, good luck :)

Note that my wiring is usually a bit tidier than this, but space was a bit of a premium and it's not the neatest finish, that's an awful lot of wires in a very small space!

Image


With the picture below, the red JST connector was eventually swapped for a 3 pin servo extension as it was better suited to the job.

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Last edited by -steves- on Thu Jun 11, 2020 8:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: LKM GRS Diesel - Now finished with loads of pictures

Post by -steves- » Sun Nov 25, 2018 11:03 am

And the video now it has finally finished uploading.

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Re: LKM GRS Diesel - Now finished with loads of pictures

Post by IrishPeter » Sun Nov 25, 2018 2:23 pm

I really like that! Cracking job.

Cheers,
Peter in Va
Traffic Pattern? What pattern? Spuds out; grain in, but cattle, sheep and passengers are a lot less predictable.

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Re: LKM GRS Diesel - Now finished with loads of pictures

Post by philipy » Sun Nov 25, 2018 2:50 pm

Veeery nice, Steve.
Philip

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Re: LKM GRS Diesel - Now finished with loads of pictures

Post by ge_rik » Sun Nov 25, 2018 6:12 pm

Clearly described and a great looking conversion. Looks and sounds good, too.

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Re: LKM GRS Diesel - Now finished with loads of pictures

Post by -steves- » Sun Nov 25, 2018 6:35 pm

Thank you for all your kind words :)

As Rik knows I had a few RC issues along the way which are not mentioned as they bare no relation to the thread, but it certainly made the task more challenging :)
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Re: LKM GRS Diesel - Now finished with loads of pictures

Post by ge_rik » Mon Nov 26, 2018 9:48 am

-steves- wrote: Sun Nov 25, 2018 6:35 pm Thank you for all your kind words :)
As Rik knows I had a few RC issues along the way which are not mentioned as they bare no relation to the thread, but it certainly made the task more challenging :)
Fortunately, you're more than happy to tinker and twiddle and get things working again.

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Re: LKM GRS Diesel - Now finished with loads of pictures

Post by tom_tom_go » Mon Nov 26, 2018 3:25 pm

Well done fitting all that into such a tiny loco.

Don't worry about the rats nest of wires, my Brandbright conversion was a squeeze as well!

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Re: LKM GRS Diesel - Now finished with loads of pictures

Post by -steves- » Mon Nov 26, 2018 5:06 pm

Honestly I think it's the tinkering and problem solving bit that I actually enjoy the most, I might curse lots while going through it all, even give up at times and walk away from it, but when it's all complete and working, you stand back, proud as punch, look back and say, do you know, I really enjoyed that. I think it's the challenges that keep me so interested.

By the way, if anyone has a "fault" with their Deltang based equipment and it starts doing really really strange things, like the motor running on for no apparent reason, or speeding up and slowing down for no reason, please check the battery in the TX or even the state of the battery in the RX before ripping everything out and apart, just to save you some valuable time, lol ;)
ge_rik wrote: Mon Nov 26, 2018 9:48 am
-steves- wrote: Sun Nov 25, 2018 6:35 pm Thank you for all your kind words :)
As Rik knows I had a few RC issues along the way which are not mentioned as they bare no relation to the thread, but it certainly made the task more challenging :)
Fortunately, you're more than happy to tinker and twiddle and get things working again.

Rik
The buck stops here .......

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Re: LKM GRS Diesel - Now finished with loads of pictures

Post by -steves- » Mon Nov 26, 2018 5:08 pm

It was indeed a very tight squeeze and I am pleased my plan of batteries worked out so well in the end. I certainly wouldn't attempt to fit it in anything smaller, well, quite simply, it just wouldn't fit, lol. :lol:
tom_tom_go wrote: Mon Nov 26, 2018 3:25 pm Well done fitting all that into such a tiny loco.

Don't worry about the rats nest of wires, my Brandbright conversion was a squeeze as well!
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Re: LKM GRS Diesel - Now finished with loads of pictures

Post by ge_rik » Tue Nov 27, 2018 9:18 am

The smallest loco I've converted to battery rc was an 0 gauge Dapol Terrier tank for a customer. Never again! It wasn't so much the logistics of fitting everything in, that was the interesting part, it was the reassembly. There were so many tiny and fragile detailing parts which broke at the slightest touch. I took off as many as I could when dismantling, but some were not removable without breakage.

https://riksrailway.blogspot.com/2017/0 ... -loco.html

Rik
Last edited by ge_rik on Fri Nov 30, 2018 12:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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