Remote Control for an Accucraft Caradoc.

[tegfan railway]

With respect, those servos will NOT do the job!!

Out of curiosity why would those servos not do the job? I suppose for overkill you could always use MG90 @ about a fiver each.

I think it's all been said above by others really, but you do need to consider the torque output of those little servos? - plus metal geared ones are much more reliable long term.  Those regulators and reversers can get get quite stiff. That's relative, by the way!  I would view an MG90 as the minimum really, especially for the reverser.  I prefer Hitec HS 82 from experience of reliability, although bigger Turnigy's have been good for me. Of course the size versus torque is always a hassle, if only the smaller ones were more powerful!

The MG90 are metal geared and ball raced they have a torque of 2.2kg on 6v and 1.8 on 4.8V which should be more than enough on a loco, not sure of stall torques on the 82s I think its about 2.6kg. In my gliders I have used Savox, Futaba, Hitec, Multiplex, Vigor and Towerpro all are excellent and useful in different situations. The Vigors are excellent in really tight spaces, I use them in very thin wings, good torque at 1.8 and really cheap from Hobbyking or R2 Hobbies. I can't see the need for anything over 1.5 kg torque in loco use as the only strain is friction in the regulator. For TX duration you could always fit lipos, I have a field force 9 on 2.4 with lipos it goes for weeks before it needs charging! I think in the model aircraft circles we must just be cheapskates looking for the best deals, and hacks/tips to make life easier.

PS out of curiosity do you guys on 2.4 use the failsafe function, I am in the middle of fitting RC to a Leader

[New Haven Neil]

I'm with you on the Vigors, awkward to mount but very useful.

Perhaps my engineering background drives me to specify equipment with a larger factor of safety, but in general I'll fit the biggest I can squeeze in....within reason!

HS82's are 3.4/2.8, and I have never had one go down.  Ask yourself why Roundhouse use them.  The cheapies though...the magic smoke seems to escape from them for me.  Steam locos are a hostile environment for electronics, and not a fair comparison to a glider, although ic engined planes must be problematic in other ways - vibration mostly I would have thought, but that's not my field.

Can't agree about the regulator being the only strain though - the reversers are harder work IMHO.  Maybe less so on an Accu, but they still are a fair load, but on a loco with 'proper' (ish!) valve gear, there is a lot of kick back that ruins cheap servos el pronto in my experience.

Edit - sorry, forgot to answer your failsafe question - yes!

[tegfan railway]

I'm with you on the Vigors, awkward to mount but very useful.

Perhaps my engineering background drives me to specify equipment with a larger factor of safety, but in general I'll fit the biggest I can squeeze in....within reason!

HS82's are 3.4/2.8, and I have never had one go down.  Ask yourself why Roundhouse use them.  The cheapies though...the magic smoke seems to escape from them for me.  Steam locos are a hostile environment for electronics, and not a fair comparison to a glider, although ic engined planes must be problematic in other ways - vibration mostly I would have thought, but that's not my field.

Can't agree about the regulator being the only strain though - the reversers are harder work IMHO.  Maybe less so on an Accu, but they still are a fair load, but on a loco with 'proper' (ish!) valve gear, there is a lot of kick back that ruins cheap servos el pronto in my experience.

Edit - sorry, forgot to answer your failsafe question - yes!

When I use the vigors its usually in a very thin carbon kevlar moulded wing onto the inside top surface. They way of mounting them is to wrap them in tape and set then on a bed of epoxy and microballoons. This gives a good solid mount that copes with flying at speeds of 100mph plus. Its a bit permanent but they do come out if needs be. Not sure if this would transfer over onto a loco body. I am planning to use 2 spare vigors in my Leader. I meant reverser not regulator - still new to this steam malarkey!

[New Haven Neil]

What's a microballoon please, as 'planes aren't my area!

Well, 38 years ago with a PAW 1 1/2 diesel in a flying wing on control lines they were.....

I think all constructive hobbies have lessons to lean from each other - the weathering of military models for instance.....superb.

I have seen the wrapping in shrink wrap and setting in epoxy mentioned elsewhere, not sure epoxy is too good an idea on a steamer, I have seen some'well known' brands go a bit soft with heat. JB weld is rock hard though.... I always think those vigor servos are more poweful than they are labelled, used them for whistle pulls and the like successfully. They fit under footplates nicely to work regulators, yes. Turnigy 555's are good for that too, if rather larger.

[tegfan railway]

What's a microballoon please, as 'planes aren't my area!

Microballoons are very small glass sphere that are mixed with the epoxy into a sort of paste.

definitive article on gluing servos into wings is here:
http://www.knewt.com/planes/servo.htm

Microballoons I use are made by deluxe materials.

PS I meant reverser not regulator, still new to this steam malarkey.

[SherpaPhil]

Tony has fitted my Caradoc (my first steam loco) with the Planet R/C & i've had no problems with her, even though as it was my first go at driving a steam loco of her size i was abit heavy handed at first
phil

[Mr ACME]

This engine was designed to have a single channel RC, which I came up with when fitting all Accucraft UK engines with RC.

I charge £150 which includes:

Planet RC 2.4 Ghz RC
Rechargeable batteries fitted to engine.
On/off switch with charging lead
Maims charger.
Engine fitted with quality servo.
Fully set up and including full instructiomns

Why go for twin servo control, when the engine was never designed for that in the first place.

Best

Mike Ousby

salkes@acmesteam.co.uk

so less than £40 for the RC gear and I reckon all the pushrods etc would come to under a fiver.

Conveniently forgetting the switch harness and the other set of batteries.

What you have to remember is that anybody installing r/c job as a trader on behalf of a customer wants to do a quality job once, and once only. The absolute worst thing that can happen is that the customer calls back in a few weeks and says, "You know those £2 servos you put in my loco? Well, they've stopped working". So, you have to get the loco back (paying for the postage of course), do the job again for free (paying for another set of servos) and then send it back (paying for another lot of postage). And at this point you wave goodbye to any profit.

You pay your money and take your choice, and if anybody asked me to install the cheap tat described above then I would respectfully decline the invitation to do so.

[TonyW]

Why go for twin servo control, when the engine was never designed for that in the first place.

I know of several that have been upgraded from single to twin servo as their owners did not get on with the single servo arrangement. And, to be fair, Laurence wrote earlier on this thread:

But I'd ideally like both the regulator and the reverser to be separately controlled.

[laurence703]

Ok... It seems all hell has broken loose in the short time I've not looked on here...

I understand the Caradoc was intended to just have the regulator to be controlled by RC but having seen a few locos with both Reg and Reverser, I would Ideally like the same level of control so that if, god forbid, a speeding loco is headed straight for my pride and joy I can get it out of the way relatively quickly to avoid any damage or even stop my loco from damaging someone else's prised possessions.

Because My Caradoc is my first proper steam loco in this scale and probably my only one for a good long while to come, there is no way I would even consider using parts that could potentially melt or break in operation which could mean an early trip to the shelf... I would like to use parts that have a good reputation for working flawlessly and to be fitted by someone who has a good reputation in this area to ensure the loco will work as well as it does currently.

In terms of price, under £200 is good but under £165 is even better, but I will not be able to afford this until next year now as I have my car insurance at the end of next month (£770 ish) and then Christmas (unless I ask for it to be RC'd as my present lol ) such is my life... fingers crossed my payrise comes through this month.

[TonyW]

Ok... It seems all hell has broken loose in the short time I've not looked on here...

Has it? I've just seen a reasoned discussion about which equipment to use (including some useful and now saved links), and the respective costs of DIY and having somebody do the job for you. Have I missed something?

I understand the Caradoc was intended to just have the regulator to be controlled by RC...

It is my understanding that it was designed to have just the reverser controlled by RC. By manually opening the regulator and it is then possible to drive the loco by adjusting the reverser position.

[laurence703]

Ah ok, I apologise TonyW, I should have worded that first sentence better than I did. I wasn't expecting half as many replies as this on this thread but thank you to you all for this wealth of knowledge.

So by just RC-ing the reverser does it become similar to that of a mamod where the regulator and reverser are the same? Once you've set the actual regulator I mean? Or does it continue to have the three settings of forward, neutral and reverse?

[Keith S]

The reversing mechanism on your engine consists of a valve which swaps the intake for the exhaust ports on your cylinders. At the extremities of its travel the valve is either fully open in reverse or fully open in forward. At intermediate positions it is not fully open and chokes off the steam like a throttle. Therefore it is possible to open the regulator manually and then control both the engines' speed and direction with one lever. I gather that some people find it a little touchy to control when the regulator is wide open, but I have never personally driven one. You would be setting the "top speed" manually with the regulator and controlling the engine within this range with the reverser.

[laurence703]

Ah! I see! Thank you. That sounds like a good idea to me! Makes life simple enough so yes the reverser acts in the same way that the reverser/regulator does on a Mamod. By controlling speed as well as direction.

[New Haven Neil]

Ok... It seems all hell has broken loose in the short time I've not looked on here...

Has it? I've just seen a reasoned discussion about which equipment to use (including some useful and now saved links), and the respective costs of DIY and having somebody do the job for you. Have I missed something?
quote] snip<

Indeed - there's not a drop of blood spilt! We just have different experiences and opinions, no harm in that ;-) You also have to consider folk like Mike, Tony and others have a living to make - so their costs are I'm sure perfectly reasonable. I'm still boggling over microballoons....

[freelander]

I have a single channel r/c on my carodac and it is easy to control, I disagree that the regulater needs to be opened full, it is opened to suit your layout, if it is flat without any incline then a quarter of a turn would ok ,if on the other hand you have inclines then you would need to open the reg a little more, by opening it up fully you would not have full control, remember these little engines only traveled slowly at the best of times and as models we should try to copy this when we are running our railways. it becomes trial and error and through this it helps you to be come a better engine driver.

freelander