"Calloway", a Roundhouse Bundaberg Fowler Rebuild

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Re: "Calloway", a Roundhouse Bundaberg Fowler Rebuild

Post by GTB » Tue Oct 12, 2021 2:16 pm

bambuko wrote: Mon Oct 11, 2021 4:16 pm I don't know how slaveishly Bundaberg boys were following Fowler original, but on my GA (of Airdmillan - as you know last one produced in UK) it does show boiler feed pump, but no injectors...??
Bundy Fowlers were built with two injectors, one on each side underneath the front corners of the cab, mounted for easy access and visible in most photos.

That GA also doesn't show a reverser, but I'd put money on Airdmillan having been built with one. The horizontal section on the drivers side of the plan view is through the axle centres and looking down, which is below the injector and reverser positions, so they aren't drawn.

I can't find a builders photo of the loco showing the r/h side, but it certainly had an injector on the drivers side in a postwar photo and the remains of it are still fitted to what's left of the loco. The injector itself seems to have been inside the cab, as just the water feed from the r/h side tank is visible, as is the overflow pipe sticking out of the cab floor.

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Graeme

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Re: "Calloway", a Roundhouse Bundaberg Fowler Rebuild

Post by bambuko » Tue Oct 12, 2021 2:37 pm

GTB wrote: Tue Oct 12, 2021 2:16 pm ...That GA also doesn't show a reverser, but I'd put money on Airdmillan having been built with one...
It doesn't show reverser, because it is on the opposite RH side ;)
Attached part orf GA top view shows LH side, where the boiler pump was.
Here original Fowler UK picture (Ardmillan), showing no injectors, and just a pipe leading to boiler pump...
but I have no photo of RH side :oops:
fowler.jpg
fowler.jpg (130.18 KiB) Viewed 6203 times

As for Bundaberg injectors, here couple of pics I have found since.
I guess they went their own (better) way...
injector2.jpg
injector2.jpg (27.33 KiB) Viewed 6203 times

injector1.jpg
injector1.jpg (134.05 KiB) Viewed 6203 times

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Re: "Calloway", a Roundhouse Bundaberg Fowler Rebuild

Post by 11thHour » Wed Oct 13, 2021 7:27 am

I wonder how long the lubricator mechanism mounted on top of the cylinder lasted. The actuator looks a little lightweight 🙃
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Re: "Calloway", a Roundhouse Bundaberg Fowler Rebuild

Post by big-ted » Sun Oct 17, 2021 7:13 pm

LNR wrote: Sun Oct 10, 2021 11:55 pm Hi Aaron,
Don't know if this is any help or what type of under cab injectors you need, but these are what I made to represent those on the NA's of Puffing Billy. Simple soldering job with various bits of K&S tube and brass turnings with hex's ground on. You could of course use brass nuts.

Puffing Billy Details 081.jpg

New Loco Log 026.jpg

Grant.
Grant,

If you ever get the time, I'd love a "how-to" of how you go about making something like this. I really want to make some similar detailing bits for my locos, but I can't even begin to think how I'd hold things in place while soldering, & not have the whole thing heat up & fall apart as I try & make the last joint.

Same goes for Aaron. I'm simply in awe of you guys that can turn random assortments of small metal pieces into convincing steam components.

Garden Railway Specialists list these guys for anyone looking for a pre-made casting:

https://www.grsuk.com/shop/Pair-of-Inje ... tal-M10540

They're listed in the gauge 3 category, but I would think would work.

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Re: "Calloway", a Roundhouse Bundaberg Fowler Rebuild

Post by LNR » Mon Oct 18, 2021 3:17 am

Hi Ted,
I'm guessing that any problems one might have making these small items, really comes down to soldering.
To go with the injector above, cutting the various pieces of K&S tube should be fairly straight forward ( I use a jewellers piecing saw, an aquired taste! ) Filing the "U" shapes to fit, always working on a length of tube before cutting off (easier to hold). I have several pieces of small steel hex bar that are tapped which allow me to insert small brass turnings, and by setting the hex on the grinder rest I can grind any size hex I want by eye ( I hate wasting proper nuts when not actually required, just me I guess).
It then comes down to soldering the bits together. I have to say I find soldering easy and very satisfying. The flux I use is pictured below, it's the consistency of water and of course is acid. I imagine it to be nothing special and that equivalent brands are available. Basically where ever it goes solder will follow once the metal is brought up to heat. I use and adjustable electric iron on small items, and electronic resin cored solder(about 1mm diam.).
So then holding it all together! the un-glazed back of an old bathroom tile is my favoured "hearth", I assembled the pieces in place, then touch the areas with the flux on a brush, which of course may move things around, but gets the flux onto mating surfaces. Using the iron pushing down GENTLY on one large piece brings things up to heat, then a gentle touch with the solder runs the solder in. Tweezers can bring errant parts together again, but I feel the secret is holding one larger part to the table with the iron an assembling the others around it. As usual cleanliness is key with soldering though I don't clean anything, just find the flux sufficient, using old or second hand brass would be a different matter.
PA180001.JPG
PA180001.JPG (89.31 KiB) Viewed 6086 times
Good luck, hope this helps.
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Re: "Calloway", a Roundhouse Bundaberg Fowler Rebuild

Post by philipy » Mon Oct 18, 2021 6:53 am

LNR wrote: Mon Oct 18, 2021 3:17 am The flux I use is pictured below, it's the consistency of water and of course is acid. I imagine it to be nothing special and that equivalent brands are available.
Sounds as though it's similar to Bakers Fluid in the UK. I haven't used it for many years but it used to be very good. Actually I'm surprised that 'elf 'n saftee haven't banned it like so many other useful things, but it seems not! :lol:
https://soldersandfluxes.co.uk/p1185/Ba ... Brass.html

What amused me is that your "POISON avoid contact with skin & eyes" product, is sold by Radiant Beautyware. One wonders what it is used for in the beauty world.
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Re: "Calloway", a Roundhouse Bundaberg Fowler Rebuild

Post by GTB » Mon Oct 18, 2021 10:05 am

philipy wrote: Mon Oct 18, 2021 6:53 am Sounds as though it's similar to Bakers Fluid in the UK. I haven't used it for many years but it used to be very good. Actually I'm surprised that 'elf 'n saftee haven't banned it like so many other useful things, but it seems not!
Radiant soldering fluid was an Aust version of Bakers and basically they are killed spirits, ie. zinc chloride and ammonium chloride dissolved in water. These days it's made by Consolidated Alloys and the bottle is labelled "Bakers" soldering fluid, but it is still referred to as Radiant No. 2 soldering fluid on the safety data sheet. You can buy it in any hardware shop in Aust. and there's also a paste version available, which is petroleum jelly based, rather than water based.
philipy wrote: Mon Oct 18, 2021 6:53 am What amused me is that your "POISON avoid contact with skin & eyes" product, is sold by Radiant Beautyware. One wonders what it is used for in the beauty world.
Your mind works in strange ways......

Radiant Beautyware was an Aust. manufacturer in the plumbing industry, one of it's product lines being stainless steel kitchen sinks. The company disappeared into a conglomerate years ago, but the brand name Radiant is still used on kitchen sinks here in Oz. The old company's only connection to the beauty industry would be the sink in a beauty salon tea room........

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Re: "Calloway", a Roundhouse Bundaberg Fowler Rebuild

Post by GAP » Mon Oct 18, 2021 11:00 am

Never had any success with "Bakers Fluid" I equate it to plumbers flux which was what I was taught to use in high school metalwork way back in the 1960's
I have used heat activated electronic flux that I brush on to great success, but then I am an ex-electronics technician and have more experience with it.
The heaviest jobs I have used soldering in the model railway environment has been to solder lengths of brass rail together prior to bending flex track to form a curve.
Trade training was always mechanically clean (wire brush, abrasives etc) to make the metal shiny, then chemically clean (Isopropyl or any other alcohol based de-greaser etc or Freon before it was banned) before applying flux to aid solder flow.
My weapon of choice for no electrical soldering work is a gas fired mini blowtorch, anchor the job then it is not touched by anything except the flame till the job is complete, less chance of accidentally moving the pieces.

Aaron; if you want pictures of the injectors fitted to Bundy Fowler No3 at the cane railway just ask and I will take them and post them.
Graeme
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Re: "Calloway", a Roundhouse Bundaberg Fowler Rebuild

Post by big-ted » Tue Oct 19, 2021 5:48 pm

LNR wrote: Mon Oct 18, 2021 3:17 am Hi Ted,
I'm guessing that any problems one might have making these small items, really comes down to soldering.
To go with the injector above, cutting the various pieces of K&S tube should be fairly straight forward ( I use a jewellers piecing saw, an aquired taste! ) Filing the "U" shapes to fit, always working on a length of tube before cutting off (easier to hold). I have several pieces of small steel hex bar that are tapped which allow me to insert small brass turnings, and by setting the hex on the grinder rest I can grind any size hex I want by eye ( I hate wasting proper nuts when not actually required, just me I guess).
It then comes down to soldering the bits together. I have to say I find soldering easy and very satisfying. The flux I use is pictured below, it's the consistency of water and of course is acid. I imagine it to be nothing special and that equivalent brands are available. Basically where ever it goes solder will follow once the metal is brought up to heat. I use and adjustable electric iron on small items, and electronic resin cored solder(about 1mm diam.).
So then holding it all together! the un-glazed back of an old bathroom tile is my favoured "hearth", I assembled the pieces in place, then touch the areas with the flux on a brush, which of course may move things around, but gets the flux onto mating surfaces. Using the iron pushing down GENTLY on one large piece brings things up to heat, then a gentle touch with the solder runs the solder in. Tweezers can bring errant parts together again, but I feel the secret is holding one larger part to the table with the iron an assembling the others around it. As usual cleanliness is key with soldering though I don't clean anything, just find the flux sufficient, using old or second hand brass would be a different matter.
PA180001.JPG
Good luck, hope this helps.
Grant.
Thank you, and apologies to Aaron for the thread hijack, and to Keith as I realise his example is equally worthy of my learning from!

So, do I understand correctly that you would essentially assemble all the pieces out, loose and with flux applied on the tile. Then bring the whole thing up to temperature and apply solder to all joints in one go? And forgive me for asking a dumb question, but this is definitely silver soldering? I learned to silver solder last year using Harris Safety Silv 45 (suspect Keith, being also in Canada, is familiar with this?!) to replace a pressure gauge syphon. I'm pretty comfortable soft-soldering (two Roundhouse kits, lots of electronics work) but what you're describing sounds incredibly fiddly. I've just assembled a set of Swift Sixteen cab steps using soft solder and, even then, I struggled with one joint falling apart as I was working on another. I'll have a go at making something similar over the Winter using silver solder and see how I get on I guess!

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Re: "Calloway", a Roundhouse Bundaberg Fowler Rebuild

Post by LNR » Wed Oct 20, 2021 1:50 am

Hi Ted,
The injector is SOFT soldered together in one go, using the tiniest amount of solder. (actually too much in this case!). I silver solder most of my boat fittings as strength is generally a requirement.
My apologies to Aaron also.
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Re: "Calloway", a Roundhouse Bundaberg Fowler Rebuild

Post by Old Man Aaron » Wed Oct 20, 2021 7:15 am

Thanks, Grant. This being a freelance industrial loco, I figure I could get away with any old injectors. But looking at the Bundy Foundry book now, shows they were all fitted with Auto Positives similar (possibly identical) to those on the NAs. Quoting the book: "Only specialised items such as gauges, lubricators, electrical fittings, injectors, safety valves and roller bearings were bought in".

I did briefly consider fabricating injectors as you have, (beautiful work by the way, you too, Keith) but dismissed it as I couldn't think of a way to hold the parts together for soldering. But nails in a block of wood, I didn't think of that. :roll: Will have a go.. Failing that, I'll try DJB, GRS and Roundhouse. Cheers, fellas, it's hard to remember all the suppliers we have in 16mm.

I'm surprised to see Airdmillan had a feedwater pump as-built. Not aware of any other cane loco ever having been fitted with one. Although it now (like our Bundy 5) carries a pair of Auto Positives, I suspect it may have been built with backhead-mounted "cross-head" injectors, as the earlier Innisfail B9½s seemed to have. Though looking at the same photo, Graeme, I think you're right about it being in the cab and draining through the footplate.
Looking at Airdmillan's reverser today, it's your typical Fowler assembly.

Re: drill bits, the funny thing is they were the same bits, in the same pin-vice, in the same drill press as last time - all being el-cheapo. Incidentally, I've also once had the spiral reverse. Looking back, I'd think the pin vice just happened to be positioned more "truly" this time. Planning on finding a quality drill press when I build the new workshop, maybe even one with a miniature chuck for bits under 1.5mm.

The mechanical lubricator linkage is surprisingly robust. Outside the QLD Govt. mainline, which mostly stayed with hydrostatic lubricators to the end, many of our narrow gauge locos over time, had their hydrostatics replaced with mechanical lubricators. Nearly all the locos at Woodford have 'em. Thanks for the offer Graeme, but the photos here will be enough for me.

Thanks for the helpful input, gents. It's appreciated.

19/10/21
The rain slowed things up a bit, but the chassis is now mostly done. The motion was left assembled like last time on "Victoria", and painted in one piece, masking off to spray the cylinders. Blue-tac was used to mask around the ends of the gland nuts. Again as last time, the clip-on cylinder covers needed a few spots of shockproof (hi-temp) superglue to keep them tightly in place.
I'd like to have detailed the pony wheel frame, but due to the way the prototype is made, the way the model is made, and the lack of space behind the frame when set for 45mm gauge, I can't really do much. I may yet drill it and put a couple of sewing pins in the frame, but it's almost not worth it. I'll see how it looks once the cab and steps are fitted..
Image

IP Eng. appears to now use a 3D-printed master for their Darj. couplings. I was impressed with the quality of the castings, but the 3D-printed master really needs to be cleaned up. Why leave print lines on every surface and a deeply sunken (heat-deformed) corner for everyone to fix? Though if it's just a temporary stop-gap for a batch or two, fair enough.. I used JB Weld to build up the missing corner, and fitted with a pair of M3 bolts.

The surface of the headstocks isn't perfectly flawless, but quite good enough for me. The round "knub" in the center of each cylinder head is an M2 cheesehead screw, the slot filled in with soft solder and cleaned up on the lathe. Some Permatex hi-temp thread sealant was applied before gently tightening home with pliers. The protruding thread on the inside was cut away with the dremel. No oil was used in the cylinders' assembly.
Image
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Re: "Calloway", a Roundhouse Bundaberg Fowler Rebuild

Post by Old Man Aaron » Fri Nov 26, 2021 7:24 am

Wanting to get the cab and footplate refitted, I turned to rebuilding the rear headlight and the headache of working out how to power it, whilst still allowing the roof to hinge.

20/11/21
The headlight shell was carefully opened out on the lathe, to see if I could fit a separate aluminium reflector inside. Thankfully I didn't machine through the back of the shell and have to make a one-piece replacement headlight. A drawing with dimensions was made, of both completed parts, for when I do the front headlight. I can put a photo of the drawing in the thread if anyone would find it useful?
Image

26/11/21
Darrell's fine work on his Eric build, was the push I needed to do better than my past shameful practice of gluing wires into cabs. This conduit isn't perfect, but close enough for a first go using tube bending coils. Wet rags were needed to protect the styrene overlays when soldering the conduit into place.
For connectors, wire was soldered to 1mm x 5mm magnets - themselves attached to a stack of larger, more powerful magnets, to reduce the de-magnetising effect of the soldering iron's heat. A second, undamaged small magnet was them glued to the soldered one with JB Weld. The wire was then fed down the tube, and the magnets JB Welded into a styrene box, to keep them electrically isolated from the cab structure.

I found the the roof support strut was a pain in the backside to use, so now was the time to fix that. It was shortened, and one of the larger magnets was glued into the front RH corner of the cab. This allows the hook to be swung into/out of place with a single movement and is now far quicker and easier to use.

Mating faces of the headlight bracket were cleaned to bare metal before assembly, and the positive wire soldered to the bracket. Another conduit/magnet connector was made for the negative wire.
IMG_9224-26.jpg
IMG_9224-26.jpg (659.16 KiB) Viewed 5414 times

Bench tested successfully, and I think this cab is ready for priming..
IMG_9227-28.jpg
IMG_9227-28.jpg (591.79 KiB) Viewed 5414 times
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Re: "Calloway", a Roundhouse Bundaberg Fowler Rebuild

Post by philipy » Fri Nov 26, 2021 10:33 am

Very nice neat wiring solution. I must admit I usually glue them into corners where they are least noticeable!
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Re: "Calloway", a Roundhouse Bundaberg Fowler Rebuild

Post by Old Man Aaron » Tue Dec 28, 2021 12:50 pm

Cheers Phil! It's not wrong if it works for you! 8)

Back to the Bundy - expecting delivery of my first car in about a fortnight, (which needs work and will likely take some priority :scratch:) so in the meantime I'd like to advance this project as far as possible.

13/12/21
That's the chimney done after starting it 18 months ago, with the bottom ring drilled and fitted with the usual dummy rivets.
There's some witness dimples in the casting, where handrail knobs/pipework are to be drilled for on other models, Eg: Katie.
Went to clean those spots with alcohol so they could be filled with JB Weld, but whatever tough stuff Roundhouse uses on their smokeboxes certainly doesn't stand up to alcohol. Not wanting to take chances with re-hardened paint on a part that gets hot and oily, the smokebox was stripped to bare and awaits filling..
Image


28/12/21
Injectors were made over two days, and I'm surprised to say they came out very well. The parts were a bit fiddly to prod into place, but sewing pins came in handy once again, holding the parts against the plank. A quick blast with the mapp torch kept the pieces hot for a good few seconds, affording enough time to touch the soft solder where needed. A couple of pins got caught in the solder, but were easily removed.

Thanks for the advice and encouragement, probably wouldn't have been game to try that, otherwise.
They're screwed under the footplate via the brass strip; the footplate itself now looking like Swiss cheese with all its respective new and redundant holes.. :roll:

JB Weld was used to tidy up the soldered joints around the front corners of the side tanks; Also had their inner sides extended downward, so there's no visible gap down beside the boiler.
IMG_9313-15.jpg
IMG_9313-15.jpg (685.91 KiB) Viewed 5183 times
The water feed pipes obstruct the ashpan slightly, I probably should've pre-bent the water lines for a tighter bend before soldering. Prototypes all appear to have used elbow fittings directly off the injector water inlet for this reason. Good enough. :dontknow:
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Re: "Calloway", a Roundhouse Bundaberg Fowler Rebuild

Post by Old Man Aaron » Wed Jan 05, 2022 9:48 am

29/12/21
I noticed with the new bearings (which are thinner than the original bronze ones) the axles have far more side-play than they should. The coupling rods were touching the deepened tank support gussets. So six spacers were machined from brass, to slip in between bearing and crank. We'll see how they perform with minimal oiling..
Image

Scum Class Works' drawings aren't quite to the standard of say, Llewellyn Loco Works, but they fit nicely on the new shelf behind the lathe, so it's nice being able to see at a glance whilst machining.
Image

01/01/22
The boiler assembly, smokebox and domes were temporarily refitted to allow the headlight wire conduit and dummy blower line to be made and positioned with a piece of masking tape. Starting with the rear-most boiler band, they were soft-soldered into place, using a wet (clean) rag to protect everything else from the mapp torch. Photo was taken before pickling the assembly in citric acid.

I don't normally bother with anything more than rinsing the citric away with water, but this being a boiler, and with the cladding and bands attached, it was neutralised in a baking soda solution for an hour after pickling.
Image


04/01/22
Using a different shade of green this time round, as the nicer-coloured stuff I used to use seems to be contaminated when it's put into the can - Resulting in fish-eyes in everything no matter what you painted or how it was prepped. After the first coat had dried, I wasn't sure if I wanted to proceed with the new stuff; it's a bit cold in tone. So the parts were set on the chassis along with the smokebox to make a decision. I think once it's fully detailed and weathered, I can live with it on this and future locos.

The cab, tanks, footplate and cab steps were black etch-primed like everything else, but this time I'm trying something different for weathering - the parts received a coat of red oxide primer before their topcoats. The idea being to carefully sand away the topcoat in wear-spots, showing primer underneath. They'll still need the usual weathering methods besides, but I think it'll add another layer of realism.
Image

Hoping to have the loco mostly re-assembled by this time next week..
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Re: "Calloway", a Roundhouse Bundaberg Fowler Rebuild

Post by Old Man Aaron » Sat Mar 12, 2022 2:38 pm

Not much progress for 3 months, and a well-overdue update - I've allowed life to get in the way of important things for far too long..

24/01/22
The whistle represents a standard Queensland Govt. Railways fitting - perhaps pilfered by a former QGR crewman upon leaving for the canefields, or simply found lying around at Bundaberg Foundry, whom were contracted to overhaul locos for QGR. Turned with mainly the parting tool and files, then polished before parting off.
Image

The hole in the dome's top needed to be enlarged, then bored a little further. A plug was then made to fit, with 2mm holes for the dummy whistle and safety valves, along with several 0.9mm holes for steam to issue from the actual safety valve hidden within.
Image

Generator was detailed in the usual way. The dummy safeties are just generic-looking things that resemble most canefield prototypes. The original whistle mount on the cab front was left alone as the prototypes usually were, when their whistles were re-located to the dome.
IMG_9516-18.jpg
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02/03/22
Two of the screws holding the cab and footplate together are in the bunker floor, so the coal load must be removable. Inside the bunker was painted with black enamel. A coal load was made from foam rubber packaging, carved to shape with a hot knife (well-ventilated) and painted with black acrylic. Once dry, a piece of cling wrap was folded under the foam, before fitting in the bunker, brushing on some PVA and gluing crushed coal over it.
Rather happy with it, though it needs more than the one magnet I embedded in the load, to allow it to lift out of it's snugly-fitting bunker.
IMG_9551-53.jpg
IMG_9551-53.jpg (819.09 KiB) Viewed 4775 times

The rear reflector and glass watch lens were fitted after I stopped procrastinating and made/fitted the front reflector.
Image

13/03/22
I was about to paint the front headlight assembly when I realised I still needed a dummy mechanical lubricator, and felt it best to wait till that was ready for paint - which as you can see, I didn't bother with. The pipework was deliberately roughly-bent, to represent that battered state of real oil lines.
I've already made the "crank" from copper wire, and have yet to make the linkage to the valve spindle fork. Would've preferred steel wire for the linkages, but have only music wire on hand, which is far too brittle and difficult to work, even when annealed. We'll see how poorly the copper fares..
Image


Inside the cab was painted with cream enamel, the fittings stripped of their lacquer in acetone then blackened, and the footplate carefully sanded to reveal the red primer under the black paint. Still needs a little cleanup, and an enamel "sootty" wash will tie it all together.
Image


Wiring is underway, though not my strong suit. Batteries were a fiasco but now sorted and assembled in a removable pack. Many joints between body and frame parts were opened up, cleaned and given a bit of dielectric grease on a cotton bud, to hopefully maintain good grounding for the lights..
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Re: "Calloway", a Roundhouse Bundaberg Fowler Rebuild

Post by Lonsdaler » Sat Mar 12, 2022 11:11 pm

I really like the look of this Aaron, you are adding your own mark to make this something special. You certainly have an eye for detail.
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Re: "Calloway", a Roundhouse Bundaberg Fowler Rebuild

Post by LNR » Sun Mar 13, 2022 4:43 am

Great detailing Aaron, particularly like the depression in the centre of the coal load, as opposed to the full to the brim look.
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Re: "Calloway", a Roundhouse Bundaberg Fowler Rebuild

Post by Lonsdaler » Mon Mar 14, 2022 10:01 am

LNR wrote: Sun Mar 13, 2022 4:43 am Great detailing Aaron, particularly like the depression in the centre of the coal load, as opposed to the full to the brim look.
Grant.
Yes, that was one of the details that particularly impressed me. It will make the loco appear to be active, unlike most coal loads which suggest the bunker has just been filled. :thumbup:
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Re: "Calloway", a Roundhouse Bundaberg Fowler Rebuild

Post by Andrew » Mon Mar 14, 2022 4:01 pm

Lonsdaler wrote: Mon Mar 14, 2022 10:01 am that was one of the details that particularly impressed me.
And me! A lovely touch...

The whole loco's looking fantastic...

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