bambuko loco works 0-6-2 (Fowler)

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Hydrostatic Dazza
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Re: bambuko loco works 0-6-2 (Fowler)

Post by Hydrostatic Dazza » Thu Dec 05, 2019 7:31 pm

You are doing such a nice job, put a grate in and burn the black stuff.
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Re: bambuko loco works 0-6-2 (Fowler)

Post by bambuko » Thu Dec 05, 2019 8:35 pm

Hydrostatic Dazza wrote:
Thu Dec 05, 2019 7:31 pm
You are doing such a nice job, put a grate in and burn the black stuff.
Thank you.
I would like to do it indeed :thumbright: but this particular model would need too much butchery to rear of the cab to permit easy access for the shovel.
Plus, adding axle pump at this stage would be a bit of PITA
I will leave it for the next one :mrgreen:
Having said so - this mod is not impossible and the way this project is meandering you never know where it might end up :D

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Re: bambuko loco works 0-6-2 (Fowler)

Post by bambuko » Tue Dec 10, 2019 6:28 pm

Something slightly different (i.e. no update, although I am making progress :thumbright: )
Here is one of the original, Leeds build Aussie Fowlers that made it's way back to UK:



She is in "Steam Workshop":

https://www.steamworkshop.co.uk/portfol ... ler-16341/

and here as she was in Australia:

http://www.australiansteam.com/fowler16341.htm

and more photos:

http://www.steamworkshop.co.uk/portfoli ... s-fowlers/

Shame I got the vids and photos only now and not when I was designing my model (which suffered from desperate shortage of decent photos of original)

OK, she is 0-4-2 not 0-6-2 (which I am building) but other than that she is much of the muchness...
Not surprising since someone like Fowler wouldn't be re-inventing the wheel every time it build a locomotive :mrgreen:
Lot of common components and familiar design aspects.
Hope you guys enjoy it as well :study:

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Re: bambuko loco works 0-6-2 (Fowler)

Post by Hydrostatic Dazza » Wed Dec 11, 2019 8:46 pm

bambuko wrote:
Thu Dec 05, 2019 8:35 pm
Hydrostatic Dazza wrote:
Thu Dec 05, 2019 7:31 pm
You are doing such a nice job, put a grate in and burn the black stuff.
Thank you.
I would like to do it indeed :thumbright: but this particular model would need too much butchery to rear of the cab to permit easy access for the shovel.
Plus, adding axle pump at this stage would be a bit of PITA
I will leave it for the next one :mrgreen:
Having said so - this mod is not impossible and the way this project is meandering you never know where it might end up :D
There were articles in AME magazine in 2017, they did thermal modeling of what happens in a coal fired wet leg boiler when run dry. The temperature rise was very little and well withing the brazing and copper material stability, due to the draft on the fire ceasing as soon as the water was gone. thus in the small garden size grates, the fire dies to a ember. (if you use soft solder well ??) They backed this up with actual testing and measuring temperatures and all was very close to the thermal modeling. I saw this in action on the loco at my local ME club run. They have a small garden track there now. I know many will be :roll: with the concept of a coal fired garden steamer without a pump, but like many things, once the notions are wide spread, then the notion is all blanketing and perpetuated for decades it is hard to dispel. So maybe you do not need a pump if the boiler has wet legs and the design has a decent water volume for long runs. (less tubes) I am putting a pump in my build to just give the option of a lengthening the run, thinking it will be 30 -40 minutes with a slow trickle that will be just below the steaming rate. Still able to run it dry, it just gives more wine and smelly cheese time . Did I email the scans of these AME articles to you ?
Cheers from Dazza, The Hydrostatic Lubricator 8)
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Re: bambuko loco works 0-6-2 (Fowler)

Post by bambuko » Thu Dec 12, 2019 11:12 am

Hydrostatic Dazza wrote:
Wed Dec 11, 2019 8:46 pm
...There were articles in AME magazine in 2017, they did thermal modeling of what happens in a coal fired wet leg boiler when run dry ...I saw this in action on the loco at my local ME club run...
How does it square with the boiler code which requires you to have two independent sources of feedwater (regardless of boiler size)?
I am not saying that the article was wrong, simply asking how can you run (in a club environment) something that does not adhere to the code?
What you run in your private back garden is your own business, but in public... it's another story?
Hydrostatic Dazza wrote:
Wed Dec 11, 2019 8:46 pm
...I know many will be :roll: with the concept of a coal fired garden steamer without a pump...
Yes :mrgreen: and that's why I think that sharing a boiler code with "big guys" is a bit of a problem.
Hydrostatic Dazza wrote:
Wed Dec 11, 2019 8:46 pm
... Did I email the scans of these AME articles to you ?
Yes, you have - thank you very much!
I personally dislike axle feed pumps in smaller scales, so these articles are very encouraging :thumbright:

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Re: bambuko loco works 0-6-2 (Fowler)

Post by Keith S » Thu Dec 12, 2019 6:13 pm

Those "Riverdale" boilers don't have feed pumps. Apparently designed to carry enough water to last until fuel exhaustion. I wonder if the design takes into account that the fire will die when the blower stops. I've seen them running at expositions in public, so must be insurable at least under the 16mm association guidelines.

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Re: bambuko loco works 0-6-2 (Fowler)

Post by bambuko » Thu Dec 12, 2019 7:36 pm

Yes, just been through Riverdale webpage.
The arguments (with which I totally agree) against the use of axle pump are very well explained by Brian Wilson in this August 2014 article in "16mm Today" magazine:
https://www.riverdale-loco.com/Today.pdf

So I guess, you are right - it is acceptable to the insurers etc.
Makes a mockery though of the boiler code we are supposed to adhere to? :scratch:

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Re: bambuko loco works 0-6-2 (Fowler)

Post by TonyW » Fri Dec 13, 2019 2:51 pm

bambuko wrote:
Thu Dec 12, 2019 7:36 pm
The arguments (with which I totally agree) against the use of axle pump are very well explained by Brian Wilson in this August 2014 article in "16mm Today" magazine:
https://www.riverdale-loco.com/Today.pdf
I'd forgotten about that article, so thanks for posting the link. I have a Shawe Steam Services / Roundhouse "Jack" which has an axle pump. I must be doing it all wrong.
bambuko wrote:
Thu Dec 12, 2019 7:36 pm
So I guess, you are right - it is acceptable to the insurers etc.
Makes a mockery though of the boiler code we are supposed to adhere to? :scratch:
For clarity, to which boiler code are you referring?
Tony Willmore
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Re: bambuko loco works 0-6-2 (Fowler)

Post by bambuko » Fri Dec 13, 2019 4:06 pm

TonyW wrote:
Fri Dec 13, 2019 2:51 pm
...For clarity, to which boiler code are you referring?

in UK - The Boiler Test Code 2018:
6.5
Boiler water feed arrangements shall be by at least two independent means
(two of each, or a combination of, hand pump, injector, mechanical pump, etc.).
A single boiler inlet with two check valves is acceptable.
later edit:
Correction - above is from Volume 1 (for boilers above 3 bar litres), so it doesn't seem to apply to "our" boilers, which are covered by Volume 2.
The only reference to boiler water feed in Volume 2 is as follows:
The boiler may also be fitted with a water level gauge and a mechanical means of pumping water into the boiler whilst under working pressure. If no means of supplying water to the boiler whilst working is present, the fuel supply shall be so arranged that it is used up before the water is exhausted.
So it seems that it is all optional? :D



in Australia - AMBSC Code Part 3:
2.5.3
The boiler shall have at least two feedwater systems one of which shall be an
axle pump or other device that will maintain water level while the engine is in operation.
later edit:
This one definitely applies, regardless of size of the boiler (AFAIK)

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Re: bambuko loco works 0-6-2 (Fowler)

Post by Hydrostatic Dazza » Sat Dec 14, 2019 8:58 pm

“in Australia - AMBSC Code Part 3:
2.5.3
The boiler shall have at least two feedwater systems one of which shall be an
axle pump or other device that will maintain water level while the engine is in operation.
later edit:
This one definitely applies, regardless of size of the boiler (AFAIK)”


You may be looking at the incorrect document, are you referring to sub miniature boilers
AMBSC Code part 3
Issue 2.00 -2017
Sub- Miniature Boilers.

(which is the latest one that I know of)

There is no mention of 2.5.3, it actually does not exist in the document I have. (last listing in section 2 is 2.3.14)
There is no mention of feed water systems at all in the document. I have not seen many meth fired pot boilers with hand, axle pumps or injectors.

I will also add that as an engineering document it is has many problems. One example, there is no reference to boiler barrel wall thickness. It has been reported by others that the process of creating the current AMBSC sub miniature boiler code was fraught with problems, even contempt for the smaller scales and submissions by those who work in the smaller scales, so there are moves to create a new separate code for sub miniature boilers.
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Re: bambuko loco works 0-6-2 (Fowler)

Post by bambuko » Sat Dec 14, 2019 9:41 pm

I am referring to the same document, but I haven't got the latest version (mine is 2006), so it might be that it has changed...
Section 2.5 (in 2006 version) is Coal Fired Boilers

Yes, I am aware about the moves to create separate code.

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