New Archangel Loco Works website

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Re: New Archangel Loco Works website

Post by cncmodeller » Sat Dec 23, 2017 6:37 pm

Busted Bricks wrote: Sat Dec 23, 2017 12:23 pm
cncmodeller wrote: Sat Dec 23, 2017 11:23 am I only wish if that somebody did a cheap loco that the chassis had the cylinders and wheel arrangement that could be made into a scale loco. Too many of these freelance locos have god awful driving wheels and too long a wheelbase that is no good for a lot of real engines, so that's why I never buy them.
What full-size loco would be good to base a chassis like that on?
Just take a look at the Bagnall catalogue, the smaller locos are either 0-4-2/2-4-0 or 0-6-0 with 6 spoke driving wheels with balance weights and inside framed. The coupled wheelbases are quite short but the 0-6-0s are just another set at the same distance apart. A chassis that could encompass all those wheel arrangements could do so many Bagnall/Kerr Stuart designs, they could come with the bland made up superstructure looking like no loco that's ever been seen and that bit could be thrown away and would give purchasers a chance to make something nice.

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Re: New Archangel Loco Works website

Post by artfull dodger » Mon Dec 25, 2017 1:42 am

To put what a good bargain new generic models really are. In the July/August 1988 issue of Garden Railways laying on my lap is an add from Rara Avis Trains. They seem to be the main importer of Merlin live steam and other 16mm ish type stuff in the USA at that time. A Mayflower lists at $985, and the Hunslet 2-6-2t was $1950. Now I would say the average garden railroader makes a shade bit more $$ now then in 1988. I had just started high school in that year. So while they are not cheap by any means. The prices for most new models are not nearly as bad as they could be.
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Re: New Archangel Loco Works website

Post by Busted Bricks » Mon Dec 25, 2017 2:58 pm

What locos are actually made in US? I only know of the Cricket.

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Re: New Archangel Loco Works website

Post by artfull dodger » Mon Dec 25, 2017 3:21 pm

nothing except maybe some bespoke models if you know the builder personaly. Everything is either China or the UK
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Re: New Archangel Loco Works website

Post by Big Jim » Tue Dec 26, 2017 10:11 am

To put what a good bargain new generic models really are. In the July/August 1988 issue of Garden Railways laying on my lap is an add from Rara Avis Trains. They seem to be the main importer of Merlin live steam and other 16mm ish type stuff in the USA at that time. A Mayflower lists at $985, and the Hunslet 2-6-2t was $1950. Now I would say the average garden railroader makes a shade bit more $$ now then in 1988. I had just started high school in that year. So while they are not cheap by any means. The prices for most new models are not nearly as bad as they could be.
I have thought this for years
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Re: New Archangel Loco Works website

Post by Hydrostatic Dazza » Tue Dec 26, 2017 8:51 pm

Maybe because I am self employed in what has now had to become a niche industry, but it is has to be a hard road to row to make garden steam locos and make a sustainable real working wage, we can leave out the part time loco makers that suppliment their pension. The public liability insurance alone would be "AGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH OCHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH! every year. Imagine ringing an insurance broker and telling them you make things that have butane in them and hot boiling water and a pressure vessel and you will make them and sell them.........................................( I export to the USA and because of that I am hit with considerable costs)
Then before we even make anything, you have the marketing, website, blogs, shows emails, instagram, face book, forums, then you have to run the office and paper work. Well that is 25 hours of your working week gone every week. Then to the workshop, all the machinery, tooling, jigging to be created because one offs is not going to cut it at the retail prices demanded by the punter. All that equipment has to be depreciated over some years. Then it is to the workshop to make swarf.
40 hours a week to make a living! ? NAH! NEVER!
It will be 60 to 80 hours a week to scratch a living and then the punter will want a variation on a design/model and expect to only be charged 50 quid for it. OK, you make batch locos, now you try to get deposits so you can have a trickle of a cash flow to finance materials and then starve while you make the batch, lots of finance tied up in the locos. Oh, then you get the flu for a few weeks and so no income. Add all that up and see how you could possibly end up at the end the year with 40 -60K gbr in the bank to live on and have a holiday. The prices out there are what they need to be. They are quite reasonable considering everything.
Why is it China now, because the punters demand/set the price at the retail end and that is the only way it can be done at that price point, which every one moans about. Sigh!
Realise your aspirations through the efforts of others. So manufacturing goes off shore.
Yeah I am harsh because I have lived the life and still do scrape a living from the output from my hands in a workshop. (I will never make choo choos to make a living)
I think Roundhouse have done a good job and there has to be compromises to make it all feasible. I am sure the directors at Round House are not at the BMW show room every second year like my dentist. (good on her!) A small mill and lathe can be bought for less than a round house loco......................................
Last edited by Hydrostatic Dazza on Tue Dec 26, 2017 11:05 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: New Archangel Loco Works website

Post by invicta280 » Tue Dec 26, 2017 9:49 pm

How true Dazza. As someone self employed running his own business ( though not in manufacturing thank Goodness) I concur wholeheartedly with what you say.
I don't know how it is in Aus these days but the British government and its corporate mates regard small businesses as a milk cow that can be endlessly squeezed. And then they unload their responsibilities of health and safety, pension provision etc on to us. The admin alone in most micro businesses is a full time job for at least one person.

I am having trouble putting aside 1000GBP for a R/C Bertie with all the trimmings, but that is not Roundhouse's fault. I think that they do well to make the quality products they're making for the prices they charge.

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Re: New Archangel Loco Works website

Post by Busted Bricks » Tue Dec 26, 2017 10:29 pm

China prices aren't as low as they used to be. I can have parts made in Denmark at prices that can compete with China. Reasonable MOQ's as well.

I'm slowly working towards becoming a model steam loco manufacturer but my approach is a bit different. Although it is a commercial venture it will not be something I will be doing full time. I'm already self-employed in a very niche markets and I'm used to all the administrative work. Although it does take up a lot of time, it's not 25 hours a week. Some of it I can take care of while my CNC lasers work. I know it won't make me rich but as long as it doesn't cost me money it's something I want to have a go at. I'm fortunate that we have a very low overhead in terms of accommodation (old farmhouse where I can use the stables for my workshop) so I don't depend on a high income. It would not be possible in UK due to the high price of houses and industrial units there.

I don't think Roundhouse or Accucraft are raking it in - far from it - and I don't plan to compete for their market segment.

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Re: New Archangel Loco Works website

Post by Killian Keane » Tue Dec 26, 2017 10:41 pm

I think it may just be more financially viable to buy a small lathe and milling machine, for less than the cost of a new r/h as has been said, and start building our own locos to our own or published designs, perhaps making a few bob on the side making cylinders etc in small numbers for fellow garden railwaymen, or what about this: people build locos as a group, i.e. one man builds boilers, one man makes cylinders etc and in exchange for his own work he gets the rest of the parts to build the loco with no money changing hands, as long as everybody is doing pretty much the same amount of work it should be feasible (in my mind)
I don't suppose anybody has chatted Stewart about buying a set of plans for a loco?
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Re: New Archangel Loco Works website

Post by Busted Bricks » Tue Dec 26, 2017 10:46 pm

It's a nice thought that it could be done as a joint venture but it never seems to work out in real life.

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Re: New Archangel Loco Works website

Post by Big Jim » Tue Dec 26, 2017 10:50 pm

I don't suppose anybody has chatted Stewart about buying a set of plans for a loco?
I am not sure that Stuart would have any plans, most of his locos even built to the same design differ widely.

Sadly I think human nature would probably preclude building like this on anything more than a very small scale. Bartering can work, (I have re built car engines in exchange for a respray) but it can end up in a bit of a mess.
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Re: New Archangel Loco Works website

Post by cncmodeller » Thu Dec 28, 2017 11:08 pm

For me the real issue is this:- How many railway modellers are in your town/village? How many of those into narrow gauge and then how many of those into railways in the garden, then out of those who are interested in your particular slant of the thing your selling? It just gets smaller and smaller. I still think making odd parts and not trying to provide a whole package is the way forward. I always think that company who provide 'Scratch aid' brass etchings has the right idea. It's the potential that lights a lot of peoples fire and then they go off the boil. It leaves you with more time to create the next thing.

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