Llewellyn Loco Works #1

Discussion of Live Steam locomotives should be located here
User avatar
Hydrostatic Dazza
Driver
Driver
Posts: 1167
Joined: Tue Sep 19, 2017 4:17 am
Location: Brisbane
Contact:

Re: Llewellyn Loco Works #1

Post by Hydrostatic Dazza » Thu Dec 07, 2017 8:39 pm

Thanks all. I am all self taught. I have subscribed to Model Engineer Magazine since 1985 and a few other ME mags and books. That is where most of my education comes from and some tips I pick up from friends. I have been a frustrated armchair model engineer for many years, now I am off the leash and learning.
Cheers from Dazza, The Hydrostatic Lubricator 8)
The chances of finding out what’s really going on in the universe are so remote, the only thing to do is hang the sense of it and keep yourself occupied. Douglas Adams

User avatar
Hydrostatic Dazza
Driver
Driver
Posts: 1167
Joined: Tue Sep 19, 2017 4:17 am
Location: Brisbane
Contact:

Re: Llewellyn Loco Works #1

Post by Hydrostatic Dazza » Thu Dec 07, 2017 8:45 pm

My Russian fetish continues.
Ebay, sent from Ukraine $75 aud (42 GBP) never used 1983 made in the USSR depth mic, beautifully made. I have a few Russian tools that I have got over the years and I am impressed with the quality ! This one has Carbide tips on the rods! Just a lovely bit of kit !


Image

Image

Image

Image

Image
Last edited by Hydrostatic Dazza on Fri Dec 08, 2017 2:44 am, edited 3 times in total.
Cheers from Dazza, The Hydrostatic Lubricator 8)
The chances of finding out what’s really going on in the universe are so remote, the only thing to do is hang the sense of it and keep yourself occupied. Douglas Adams

User avatar
tom_tom_go
Driver
Driver
Posts: 4824
Joined: Wed Feb 23, 2011 3:08 am
Location: Kent, UK
Contact:

Re: Llewellyn Loco Works #1

Post by tom_tom_go » Thu Dec 07, 2017 8:55 pm

Erm, what is it?

User avatar
Hydrostatic Dazza
Driver
Driver
Posts: 1167
Joined: Tue Sep 19, 2017 4:17 am
Location: Brisbane
Contact:

Re: Llewellyn Loco Works #1

Post by Hydrostatic Dazza » Thu Dec 07, 2017 8:56 pm

Complete success cross drilling 2.40mm 308 stainless rod with 1.20mm holes using my little jiggy. These will be for the cylinder drains.

Image

Image

The Man Cave (The Red Room) was infiltrated last night ! But it is OK, MAM was working on her Round House Lady Ann kit.

Image

Image
Cheers from Dazza, The Hydrostatic Lubricator 8)
The chances of finding out what’s really going on in the universe are so remote, the only thing to do is hang the sense of it and keep yourself occupied. Douglas Adams

User avatar
tom_tom_go
Driver
Driver
Posts: 4824
Joined: Wed Feb 23, 2011 3:08 am
Location: Kent, UK
Contact:

Re: Llewellyn Loco Works #1

Post by tom_tom_go » Thu Dec 07, 2017 8:57 pm

CSK screws, noooo!

User avatar
Hydrostatic Dazza
Driver
Driver
Posts: 1167
Joined: Tue Sep 19, 2017 4:17 am
Location: Brisbane
Contact:

Re: Llewellyn Loco Works #1

Post by Hydrostatic Dazza » Fri Dec 08, 2017 2:50 am

tom_tom_go wrote: Thu Dec 07, 2017 8:55 pm Erm, what is it?
It is metric depth micrometer. The flat bottom rests on the work piece and your twirl the thimble till the rod that protrudes bottoms out in a hole of groove and you read the depth measurement. Works like a normal micrometer but for depth of holes etc.
72 seconds spent here will explain all

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h98HPVuWjLA
Cheers from Dazza, The Hydrostatic Lubricator 8)
The chances of finding out what’s really going on in the universe are so remote, the only thing to do is hang the sense of it and keep yourself occupied. Douglas Adams

User avatar
Hydrostatic Dazza
Driver
Driver
Posts: 1167
Joined: Tue Sep 19, 2017 4:17 am
Location: Brisbane
Contact:

Re: Llewellyn Loco Works #1

Post by Hydrostatic Dazza » Fri Dec 08, 2017 2:59 am

tom_tom_go wrote: Thu Dec 07, 2017 8:57 pm CSK screws, noooo!
I hear you, but it is MAM's loco, I am letting her find her way with the project, and assist when she asks. I am not going to do the "Man Thing" and take over. However the screws are the actual ones supplied in the kit and the quality of them is disappointing. Maybe she will swap them out later for Hex heads, but first trial assembly and then make a list of what replacement sizes are desired or required. For MAM, it is the journey and not about prototype realism.
Cheers from Dazza, The Hydrostatic Lubricator 8)
The chances of finding out what’s really going on in the universe are so remote, the only thing to do is hang the sense of it and keep yourself occupied. Douglas Adams

User avatar
tom_tom_go
Driver
Driver
Posts: 4824
Joined: Wed Feb 23, 2011 3:08 am
Location: Kent, UK
Contact:

Re: Llewellyn Loco Works #1

Post by tom_tom_go » Fri Dec 08, 2017 7:46 am

I noticed also in the photo of the Lady Anne chassis you have purchased insulated wheels?

If you plan to fit a SSP Slomo as I believe you have mentioned in previous posts then it will not be able to gauge the wheels to 32mm.

User avatar
Hydrostatic Dazza
Driver
Driver
Posts: 1167
Joined: Tue Sep 19, 2017 4:17 am
Location: Brisbane
Contact:

Re: Llewellyn Loco Works #1

Post by Hydrostatic Dazza » Fri Dec 08, 2017 7:45 pm

tom_tom_go wrote: Fri Dec 08, 2017 7:46 am I noticed also in the photo of the Lady Anne chassis you have purchased insulated wheels?

If you plan to fit a SSP Slomo as I believe you have mentioned in previous posts then it will not be able to gauge the wheels to 32mm.
OH, we are snookered then. MAM has not got that far yet, we have the Slomo here and about to do a fit up. Might require some reworking or new wheels.
We will have to have a look tonight as I am off to do a Westinghouse Brake course at a heritage railway today.
Thanks for the heads up.
Cheers from Dazza, The Hydrostatic Lubricator 8)
The chances of finding out what’s really going on in the universe are so remote, the only thing to do is hang the sense of it and keep yourself occupied. Douglas Adams

User avatar
tom_tom_go
Driver
Driver
Posts: 4824
Joined: Wed Feb 23, 2011 3:08 am
Location: Kent, UK
Contact:

Re: Llewellyn Loco Works #1

Post by tom_tom_go » Fri Dec 08, 2017 8:20 pm


Big Jim
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 2694
Joined: Sat Jul 06, 2013 5:28 pm
Location: Near Llanelli

Re: Llewellyn Loco Works #1

Post by Big Jim » Fri Dec 08, 2017 9:15 pm

That DM is rather nice, very nice in fact.
I have had some Russian stuff in the past and it is fantastic and often very over engineered.
If at first you don't succeed, use a bigger hammer!

User avatar
Hydrostatic Dazza
Driver
Driver
Posts: 1167
Joined: Tue Sep 19, 2017 4:17 am
Location: Brisbane
Contact:

Re: Llewellyn Loco Works #1

Post by Hydrostatic Dazza » Sat Dec 09, 2017 8:38 pm

Test run for the cylinder cladding. No mention of it the text but it appears in some drawings and some pictures. So I made a cladding punch with a 1.30mm HSS drill shank, shoved into a hole in a small piece of steel that was drilled 1.30mm and rubbed it over 600 grit to get a nice flat square end.
0.20mm brass sheet, bingo, that works.


Image

next

The 12BA brass cladding screws needed to be shortened.
Made a 12BA holding bush for the "SST" (screw shortening thingymajiggy)
As I screw the nut on firmly for the first time I am thinking, that has surely flattened the little round head of the brass screw.
YEP! Squished.
SO I cut an old masonary plug up and used the plastic to cushion the head.
That worked. Yesterday was another day of a Westinghouse brake Course I am doing, single car testing procedures at a heritage railway.
Today is drill the cylinder assembly and cut cladding.

Image

Image

Image

Image

Image
Cheers from Dazza, The Hydrostatic Lubricator 8)
The chances of finding out what’s really going on in the universe are so remote, the only thing to do is hang the sense of it and keep yourself occupied. Douglas Adams

User avatar
Hydrostatic Dazza
Driver
Driver
Posts: 1167
Joined: Tue Sep 19, 2017 4:17 am
Location: Brisbane
Contact:

Re: Llewellyn Loco Works #1

Post by Hydrostatic Dazza » Sun Dec 10, 2017 9:36 pm

Dazza's tip for today.
Do not drop 12 BA taps. Finding it on the floor was not a problem, well I found half of it :-(
So only one of the eight cladding screw holes was completed. This for me is the first 12 BA taped hole and the smallest I have ever done. 14 BA must be nail biting.


Image

So it was onto the motion bracket. I redesigned the valve gear and the motion bracket was much altered.
Bolted two 1.55 mm plates onto a alloy holding piece, milled the edges to give me a register and had started the drilling.
Have I mentioned lately how much I love my DRO ?
However I still carefully mark out, just for my own sanity checks . One can make very accurate mistakes with DRO.


Image

Image

Image
Cheers from Dazza, The Hydrostatic Lubricator 8)
The chances of finding out what’s really going on in the universe are so remote, the only thing to do is hang the sense of it and keep yourself occupied. Douglas Adams

User avatar
tom_tom_go
Driver
Driver
Posts: 4824
Joined: Wed Feb 23, 2011 3:08 am
Location: Kent, UK
Contact:

Re: Llewellyn Loco Works #1

Post by tom_tom_go » Sun Dec 10, 2017 9:41 pm

I really don't know what you are up to here but I feel I want to understand so can you go over in these last couple of posts with maybe simple diagrams of what you are trying to achieve?

User avatar
Hydrostatic Dazza
Driver
Driver
Posts: 1167
Joined: Tue Sep 19, 2017 4:17 am
Location: Brisbane
Contact:

Re: Llewellyn Loco Works #1

Post by Hydrostatic Dazza » Mon Dec 11, 2017 3:07 am

tom_tom_go wrote: Sun Dec 10, 2017 9:41 pm I really don't know what you are up to here but I feel I want to understand so can you go over in these last couple of posts with maybe simple diagrams of what you are trying to achieve?

Sure, OK, it is a similar process to what I was doing on page one of this thread when I was making the frames , buffer beams and coupling rods. You start with a much bigger piece for ease of manufacture and accuracy with hold down points outside of the finished part or later the hold points might be in the part as one produces holes witch can used.

One starts with a holding block, for me it is suitable rectangle alloy channel section. I use alloy because it is to hand and left over from decades of projects and it easier on the tools than steel, especially with small drills. It does not have to have an accurate surface because I clamp it in the mill vice and give the top surface a pass with the mill cutter to give one a flat and true surface to start with. The idea is not not to disturb that hold down block in the vice till all is done or critical operations are completed where ever possible. The two pieces of stock steel, let us say the motion brackets roughs for the job are rough cut bigger than the finished part are then drilled in the excess material at each end and then held to the block in the vice with M5 screws or what ever, one can get at the nuts inside the alloy section for fitting, the two parts are done at the same time held together, in the main frame plates instance I used tool makers clamps which can get into the ends of the rectangular section and then get on with suitable drilling, then fitting M4 or M5 screws. In the motion bracket instance which I am working on I milled the edges to give me true four sides. The exact size does not matter. The true edges is what matters at the moment. The part is inside the perimeter of the material held down and between the two hold down screws
Image
Note, the drawing has the dimensions from one of either two edges,
the "0-0" start point is the "origin" (top left hand corner of the part) and with the DRO (Digital Read Out) or when ever you mark out or use the feed dials on the mill you work from one edge. The same using your ruler to mark out the sanity checks or the using the digital readouts. (hand dials have back lash and you must work only in direction and that is errr yukk, with DRO you never get lost and it will beat the best hand dials every time)

The left hand edge of the drawing is the "0" for the X direction (mill table left to right)
I have the top edge of the motion bracket as "0" in the Y direction (mill table in and out)

One then uses a simple edge finder tool to find the two machined edges and then Zero the X and Y on the DRO. (allowing for half the diameter of the edge finder)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5_qiPE5z7SE

That gives you the X = 0 (left to right datum point) and Y = 0 . In a minute you can get to .01mm location. One works from the edges where location accuracy is desired, such as a mounting face to another part. The motion bracket you want to be against the frame side and the top edge was chosen as the other datum edge.
Then from there one drills as per the drawing. First I use a spotting drill to make the surface, going all over the place for all the holes using the DRO to locate accurately. With the DRO you can come back to the location with .005mm accuracy any time you wish.
Then one changes to the drill required and goes back to each hole and drills through, with suds to keep drill life long and a clean hole. Mark off the drawing in red pen the holes drilled with the correct size drill, one does not want too big of a hole in a location, too small can always be opened out. Sanity checks along the way.
For example can you see the 1.60mm hole that is at location X - 4mm, Y-12mm It is for the mounting bracket angle of motion bracket to frame plate via a /16" rivet. That is a hole that is 4mm from the side edge that sits against the frame plate and it is 12mm from the top edge of the motion bracket. It has another hole directly below at X -4, Y-19 for the second rivet.
Later one cuts the excess material away and bingo. All this can be neater and more accurate than LASER cut material !
Most of us still mark out the locations with the scriber and or a vernier caliper with one edge sharp so the lines are a sanity check as one goes about the place drilling hols via the DRO, that helps to avoid mistakes or a miss read confusion. It still can occur ! and then you have a very accurate mistake. %#*!**!*74%55!!
Later I will drill corners for slots for the radius rod to pass though and clearance for the connecting rod. The slide bar mounting bracket which is a little piece that is on the drawing but it is to be added later to the motion bracket plate but the hole is not on the attached drawing.
I will mill the slots and later complete the removal of the excess material around the parts, cutting off and milling/filing the edges. You can see on page one the buffer beams started much longer and then as I drilled I could use temporary bolts in the rivet holes and coupling hole to hold the plate and then Could cut off the excess which had the original hold down screws and clean the edges up neatly with a mill cutter.
The trick I am using with the DRO on the motion bracket is I have the origin +10mm away from the final edge of the motion bracket, so I can have the first hold down screws in this excess 10mm. Later I add hold down screws and will then cut and mill off the excess to the final lengths. It all sounds complicated but it is simple in reality.
Does that make sense?
I will try to do more pics of the process tonight and on-wards to explain easier.
Last edited by Hydrostatic Dazza on Mon Dec 11, 2017 6:24 am, edited 1 time in total.
Cheers from Dazza, The Hydrostatic Lubricator 8)
The chances of finding out what’s really going on in the universe are so remote, the only thing to do is hang the sense of it and keep yourself occupied. Douglas Adams

User avatar
Hydrostatic Dazza
Driver
Driver
Posts: 1167
Joined: Tue Sep 19, 2017 4:17 am
Location: Brisbane
Contact:

Re: Llewellyn Loco Works #1

Post by Hydrostatic Dazza » Mon Dec 11, 2017 3:15 am

this might help match up with the pics of the motion bracket machining, the red line is the material held down. The two screws and the Xs mark waste that will cut off later. It is more accurate way to work and has more possibility of controlling the outcomes.
Image

Image
Cheers from Dazza, The Hydrostatic Lubricator 8)
The chances of finding out what’s really going on in the universe are so remote, the only thing to do is hang the sense of it and keep yourself occupied. Douglas Adams

User avatar
tom_tom_go
Driver
Driver
Posts: 4824
Joined: Wed Feb 23, 2011 3:08 am
Location: Kent, UK
Contact:

Re: Llewellyn Loco Works #1

Post by tom_tom_go » Mon Dec 11, 2017 7:43 am

Thank you for going to all that effort.

The last picture shows what you are trying to make so I get it now.

I will sit at the back of class now :mrgreen:

User avatar
bambuko
Trainee Fireman
Trainee Fireman
Posts: 212
Joined: Tue Dec 12, 2017 12:11 am
Location: UK, England, North Devon

Re: Llewellyn Loco Works #1

Post by bambuko » Tue Dec 12, 2017 2:13 pm

Thank you for an excellent build thread Darrell.
I will follow it with great interest (just got Brian's book as well :D )

User avatar
Hydrostatic Dazza
Driver
Driver
Posts: 1167
Joined: Tue Sep 19, 2017 4:17 am
Location: Brisbane
Contact:

Re: Llewellyn Loco Works #1

Post by Hydrostatic Dazza » Wed Dec 13, 2017 12:24 am

bambuko wrote: Tue Dec 12, 2017 2:13 pm Thank you for an excellent build thread Darrell.
I will follow it with great interest (just got Brian's book as well :D )
It is a good book to inspire, however there are little traps if you are not careful, little errors and drawing errors and dimension errors.
Cheers from Dazza, The Hydrostatic Lubricator 8)
The chances of finding out what’s really going on in the universe are so remote, the only thing to do is hang the sense of it and keep yourself occupied. Douglas Adams

User avatar
Hydrostatic Dazza
Driver
Driver
Posts: 1167
Joined: Tue Sep 19, 2017 4:17 am
Location: Brisbane
Contact:

Re: Llewellyn Loco Works #1

Post by Hydrostatic Dazza » Wed Dec 13, 2017 12:43 am

My 0.10mm and 0.05mm increment drills is growing, the ones modified for bronze and brass and then the ones for steel and also spare ones, the stands are full and new stands are on order via ebay.

Image

Also reorganised my stash of milling cutters aS I got some bargain ones as small as 1.00mm (30 year old UK made ones) from local industrial supplier. "Brisbane Industrial Agencies" family owned business with knowledge and they have marvelous stuff squirreled away in corners.

Image

Last night was the 2.00 and the 1/16" slot drills in action, going around via the X Y co-ordinates using the DRO, The last past was .0.10mm reverse with a climb mill pass to give a sweet finish and to avoid corner pockets.


Image

Image

Image


Cut the ends off, just a wee bit of filing to round corners, deburr and mill a 27 degree bit off the top. Yeah, one can mark out spot through etc etc, drill and file, but it was fun to mill and after 32 years I have some nice little collection of tools to enjoy.
Some will notice this all very different than B. Wilson's design, I did a fair bit redesign and corrections, we will see if I have a winner or ............
Cheers from Dazza, The Hydrostatic Lubricator 8)
The chances of finding out what’s really going on in the universe are so remote, the only thing to do is hang the sense of it and keep yourself occupied. Douglas Adams

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 6 guests