Eliminate lettering on Accucraft wagon

[sandy1000]

I have an Accucraft 4 wheel Guards van that is lettered in white - W & L - on a grey overall colour. Is there anyway of removing this lettering without there being a shadow left behind?

Thanks in anticipation.

[Peter Butler]

Having no experience of these particular wagons I can only imagine the lettering is applied on top of the original base paint colour, therefore, the only way to remove it is by scraping it away rather than using a paint stripper which would remove everything.
If you take a scalpel with a curved blade you should be able to gently scrape away the unwanted paint... this will be the equivalent to shaving an inflated balloon so a steady hand is recommended.
Even then you might find a difference in surface finish so a matt/satin varnish might be required?
Good luck!

[sandy1000]

So having Parkinsons might prove to be a little problematic!

Nevertheless I have just used a razor blade ever so gently and the scraping technique will not work I don't think - it would just end up a mish mash of scratches - the lettering paint is on very hard. But thanks anyway - the use of a curved scalpel blade as you suggest would be more effective but I think a more smooth solution would be more effective. Sandpaper applied over a long period of time might work. But is there a liquid paint remover that would do the job?

[-steves-]

I would suggest either leaving it as it is or giving it a full re-paint as I doubt anyone could remove just the lettering leaving behind the original colour without leaving significant mark. Sorry.

[GTB]

But is there a liquid paint remover that would do the job?

Inks and paints are chemically similar and it's not easy to find a solvent to remove pad printer ink off paint anymore.

It depends on what ink and paint Accucraft have used for the lettering and base colour.

In the past methylated spirits would generally remove pad printer ink without affecting the underlying paint on the model, but that is rarely the case now.

You'll see all sorts of things recommended if you do a web search (eg. Pine O' Kleen !!). Unfortunately most posts are the usual repeating of something someone read somewhere and if they did work in the past, they don't work now. Inks and paints used on models have changed over the years and what worked on a Hornby model made in the UK 30 years ago won't work on a modern chinese made model.

I've used a fibreglass pencil to remove lettering in recent years, but like scraping, while it will remove the lettering, it will damage the underlying paint as well. So it's OK if you are planning to repaint the model and don't want the old lettering visible as a bump under the new paint, but not if you only want the lettering removed.

I modified a Bachmann garden scale model recently. The ink had to be removed with a fibreglass pencil and the area finished with fine sandpaper to get a smooth surface for repainting.

I tested it with metho, but while a lot of scrubbing slowly removed the lettering, it removed the paint down to the plastic as well. I also tried decal setting solvent (Solvaset) which has worked in the past, but that didn't affect the lettering at all.

Regards,
Graeme

[Big Jim]

I have used sticky tape to remove lettering before.

[sandy1000]

*Scraping method:  sharp knife, scalpel, razor - all out.

*Solvents etc  some may work but no definitive answer.

*Don't do anything at all - normally this is my approach to most garden railway issues but in this case I am constantly confronted with this lettered wagon and it sticks out as being visually irksome.

*Sticky tape - this seemed promising so I tried with very hard and sticky masking tape. This revealed the individual horizontal planking gaps after quite some effort but if it did lift the paint it would be a long process.

Success:? P600 wet and dry sandpaper. The wet is provided by saliva which may have a acidic component to it which may help with the breakdown of the over painted letters.

The photos show it all. That is 3 minutes work.

I also tried toothpaste and denture tablets - the latter being both in liquid form and as a paste. No real effect in the short term at least.

[sandy1000]

The letters W plus & were not removed successfully with sandpaper - only 3 or 4 swipes additional but unecessary were sufficient to overdo it. However I will use sandpaper in future - with intense care.

Does anyone know of a commercial hobby paint suitable for repairing the damage to the paintwork caused by the removal of the letters "W" and "&" It must be compatible with Accucraft grey.



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[tuppenced]

Youse ain't gonna believe this, hombres, but try toothpaste.

Solvents do work but are risky. Bad for skin, eyes, nose, lungs, bloodstream, liver and braincell. I've just taken off a small G from a W&L flatcar (to prove I still can, given all the wise things GTB said) and feel a headache coming on. And while I got all the white off, leaving no holes in the grey, glancing light still reveals a shadow where the G used to be. Rats!

(Trouble is, I suspect the white is actually harder than the grey beneath. I once dissolved right through the grey, STILL leaving the once-white lettering standing out in grey against a bare plastic surround! Grrr.)

My best solvent results have been using a Q-tip soaked in Xylene to stipple vertically at the white until it all flaked, then wash it off, BUT the xylene has also etched the grey around the letter, so that even once every speck of white was gone, the letter still stood out in bas-relief.

So to deal with the change in reflectivity, I tried ordinary toothpaste to give a medium-shine all over, and I noticed that the lettering I wanted to keep was starting to fade. Lightbulb moment ! Maybe the hardness of the white worked against it when attacked by fine abrasive particles?
   I confess that toothpaste still shows a raised shadow of the vanished lettering in glancing light, but the whole caboodle is now free of random solvent stains and I'm hoping it'll weather-over.

Next job is to dig out an electric toothbrush and see whether that's better - or maybe worse - than a discarded manual toothbrush.

David

[Graff B.]

I have used nail varnish remover quite successfully. dos'nt harm the paint. It's the acetone that does it.

Alan.

[LNR]

Brasso, Silvo, and toothpaste are my three go to's for polishing, particularly clear acrylic (ie windows in modelling) I have large sheets of acrylic(Perspex) that are quite scratched, but find a quick polish with Brasso makes it brand new. I find Brasso the more coarse medium, with toothpaste the finest. When repairing old clock dials you can remove numbers etc. without a trace,
Grant.

[Killian Keane]

Maybe peek polish? It seems very similar to compounds mentioned above

[sandy1000]

Thanks for all of the help - I tried the toothpaste route and even tried denture paste but to no avail. I removed the letter "L" effectively with fine sandpaper but then blew it with the "W" and "&". Tried too hard, too fast.

[GTB]

(Trouble is, I suspect the white is actually harder than the grey beneath. I once dissolved right through the grey, STILL leaving the once-white lettering standing out in grey against a bare plastic surround! Grrr.)

The Tampo printer ink may be harder, but the bigger problem with removing the lettering from the paint without leaving a trace on modern models, whether it be by solvent or abrasive, is the relative film thickness of ink and paint.

Since there are no commonly available solvents that will dissolve the ink without damaging the paint we are stuck with slowly removing it with solvent, or abrasives, that can attack both layers.

Whether using abrasives, or solvents, we can't restrict the removal process to the exact area of the lettering, so there will always be some overlap of solvent or abrasive onto the surrounding paint.

The lettering is likely to have a thicker film build than the paint, to ensure it is opaque. So the paint will have worn down to the plastic in the area surrounding the lettering, before the lettering has worn down to the paint.

If you are lucky and the ink is the thinner layer, the surrounding paint won't be removed down to the plastic, but there will still be a raised area of paint where the lettering used to be.

An electric toothbrush will take less effort, but I can't see it giving any better results. It's just another power tool after all, so the removal rate will be faster, but the control less.........

Regards,
Graeme

[andymctractor]

Not tried this myself but you could try using a fibreglass cleaning brush. One of those tools used to clean up brass etc before soldering and often come in similar shape to a retractable pen. I would then find a paint that matches as close as possible the rest of the wagon grey and paint the whole of the panel that had the lettering on it. Success could depend on the amount of patience you have selecting a suitable paint however as you will be painting the whole of a panel minor differences will not matter too much. If it does show up too much then go along the weathering route and cover up what no-one needs to know about.

Good luck

[GTB]

Does anyone know of a commercial hobby paint suitable for repairing the damage to the paintwork caused by the removal of the letters "W" and "&" It must be compatible with Accucraft grey.

Any acrylic hobby paint will be compatible in terms of not attacking the existing paint. Even Humbrol enamel would probably be OK.

The main issue will be matching the colour and gloss level. One of the aircraft or naval shades of grey will be near, but the odds are it will need tinting to get an exact match. Matching the gloss level may need a bit of work as well.

I don't own any Accucraft rolling stock, so can't offer any suggestions of an exact match to the grey used.

Regards,
Graeme

[tuppenced]

I tried the toothpaste route and even tried  denture paste but to no avail.

Shame, Sandy. Since similar Accucraft wagons do have subtle build variations, such as in the wheelsets, they may well have variations in paints and lettering too.
    For the record, I've used Colgate with a manual toothbrush to remove white lettering from an Accucraft W&L one-plank wagon in dark grey, lettered GW.

As Graeme points out, this abrasive does affect the base coat too, so the whole wagon needs treating to keep the shine consistent, and even once all white had been removed completely, glancing light still shows the minuscule rise where once it stood.
    (Not a lot of people can spell 'minuscule' you know.)

Obviously we are going to have more success where the printing is a transfer or in a different type of ink from the base colour. Even then things can be tricky. I've used acetone and my thumbnail to remove almost all the lining from a metal Accucraft Beyer Peacock, but leaving a faint groove in the fixative to deal with. However that method couldn't remove the similar-looking transfers on the cylinders, which are baked-on to resist the heat. I propose to abrade them off, ruining the top-coat, and repaint the cylinders in black.

[GTB]

All of this is probably why Accucraft make versions of their goods stock without lettering, for those who aren't specifically modelling the W&L.......

Another option for Sandy's problem is to do what the prototype railways did, which is to patch paint rolling stock until they get around to giving it a full repaint. This makes it less critical to get an exact colour and gloss match on a model.

Just find a reasonable paint match in the hobby shop paint rack and paint a patch a bit bigger than the original lettering. Brush painting would do, as the full size examples I've seen weren't that neat.

A better job though would be to cut an opening in a piece of card to use as a mask and hold it in place when spraying the patch, which will give the patch a soft edge and blend it in a bit better.

Some railways weren't that particular about the colour match if they were in a hurry. The VR modified the lettering on open wagons in the early '60s and a lot of them were running around for years with the patch painted in a bright red oxide colour, on a heavily weathered wagon still painted in the pre-'50s dark red brown colour.

Regards,
Graeme

[philipy]

Some railways weren't that particular about the colour match if they were in a hurry.

Since the railways we favour pre-date accurate colour matching by very many years, the actual paint used on any given vehicle would have been mixed up by the foreman painter, using a basic recipe and gauged by eye, so no two batches would ever have been identical either in shade or surface finish. Then add on top of that age, weather and hard use and pretty much any shade of the basic colour is close enough.

I've been watching this thread and wondering why nobody has suggested the obvious?
a) Carefully rub off the offending lettering using fine wet&dry.
b) Find the closest colour match rattle can.
c) Gently respray the entire body.

[tuppenced]

Philip,
I think we've all taken that approach for granted, and have just been trying to answer Sandy's specific question literally:

Is there anyway of removing this lettering without there being a shadow left behind?

David