CDR Railcar No. 10

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CDR Railcar No. 10

Post by ge_rik » Sun Mar 22, 2020 10:23 am

Following on from the Coronavirus Project thread, I've decided to start a separate thread on my building of the CDR Railcar No.10 using a John Campbell kit, so I don't end up monopolising the other thread.

Progress so far......

I've separated and cleaned the parts from the first fret, which comprises mostly parts for the cab.
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Thanks to some excellent help from Graeme (GTB) on the Coronavirus Project thread, I have now identified where all the parts fit. I looked online for a copy of the book your recommended, Graeme, but the cheapest I could find was £37.50, so I'll pass on that. In the meantime, I've tracked down one photo of No.10 in Tom Ferris's The Irish Narrow Gauge Vol 2 and three photos of Railcar No.14 (another Walker half-cab) in The Swilly and The Wee Donegal by Anthony Burgess in my collection of books. I've also got an Ian Beattie drawing of No.10 in her Clogher Valley guise. The drawing gives the main dimensions but doesn't show all the details such as the rivet strips around the engine compartment.

I am presently separating the parts from the second fret. This is mainly the sides and what I assume are the seat supports for the passenger compartment. Slow and painstaking work, but then I'm in no hurry .....
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Rik
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Re: CDR Railcar No. 10

Post by Peter Butler » Sun Mar 22, 2020 10:28 am

I can see now the passenger compartment etches not previously shown, they look huge. That will be a heavy vehicle when completed.
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Re: CDR Railcar No. 10

Post by ge_rik » Sun Mar 22, 2020 10:43 am

Peter Butler wrote: Sun Mar 22, 2020 10:28 am I can see now the passenger compartment etches not previously shown, they look huge. That will be a heavy vehicle when completed.
In actual fact, No.10 was the smallest of the CDR half-cab railcars. It was a 28 seater, I think the others were 41 seaters. I decided on a model of No.10 as I'm hoping it will cope with some of the tight curves on the PLR. I'm trying to decide whether to build turntables at the ends of the line, or whether I can build another railcar and run the two back to back like they did when the IoM Railway inherited two of the CDR railcars.

Rik
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Re: CDR Railcar No. 10

Post by ge_rik » Sun Mar 22, 2020 10:46 am

I'd love to model her with the engine compartment doors open. Apparently, they often had to do this during the summer months to stop the engines from overheating. Trouble is, I'd then have to model at least half of the diesel engine.....

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Re: CDR Railcar No. 10

Post by GTB » Sun Mar 22, 2020 11:32 am

ge_rik wrote: Sun Mar 22, 2020 10:23 am I've also got an Ian Beattie drawing of No.10 in her Clogher Valley guise. The drawing gives the main dimensions but doesn't show all the details such as the rivet strips around the engine compartment.
Send me a PM and I'll see what we can organise. I was contemplating scratchbuilding a model of #10 and still have the drawings and photos filed away.

Not sure I fancy scratchbuilding a Gardner diesel engine, so I think I'd have modelled it running in winter.

The kit puts me in mind of the Worsley Works 'scratchbuilding aid' etches for CDR #19 and 20.

The motor block look reasonable. Extending the frames will keep you busy for a while I guess...... ;)


Re soldering.......

A wet rag can be used as a heat sink to stop other bits falling off when soldering near them.

Step soldering is a recognised method in modelling and Carrs have four solders available with melting points ranging from 221degC down to 145degC. You just have to sit down and carefully plan the assembly sequence before starting. My opinion is they work best with soldering stations. I'm sure they can be used with gas torches, but that would be above my pay grade...

I'd keep 70degC lowmelt solder for attaching whitemetal detailing parts (if any), as heat can travel a long way in brass.

Regards,
Graeme

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Re: CDR Railcar No. 10

Post by ge_rik » Sun Mar 22, 2020 12:52 pm

GTB wrote: Sun Mar 22, 2020 11:32 am
ge_rik wrote: Sun Mar 22, 2020 10:23 am I've also got an Ian Beattie drawing of No.10 in her Clogher Valley guise. The drawing gives the main dimensions but doesn't show all the details such as the rivet strips around the engine compartment.
Send me a PM and I'll see what we can organise. I was contemplating scratchbuilding a model of #10 and still have the drawings and photos filed away.

Not sure I fancy scratchbuilding a Gardner diesel engine, so I think I'd have modelled it running in winter.

The kit puts me in mind of the Worsley Works 'scratchbuilding aid' etches for CDR #19 and 20.

The motor block look reasonable. Extending the frames will keep you busy for a while I guess...... ;)


Re soldering.......

A wet rag can be used as a heat sink to stop other bits falling off when soldering near them.

Step soldering is a recognised method in modelling and Carrs have four solders available with melting points ranging from 221degC down to 145degC. You just have to sit down and carefully plan the assembly sequence before starting. My opinion is they work best with soldering stations. I'm sure they can be used with gas torches, but that would be above my pay grade...

I'd keep 70degC lowmelt solder for attaching whitemetal detailing parts (if any), as heat can travel a long way in brass.

Regards,
Graeme
Thanks again, Graeme
A further search reveals the a chain of shops we have over here called "The Works" which sells remaindered books have it listed for £2.50 but it's out of stock! PM sent.

I wondered what Tony W meant by a heat sink. I do have a couple of chunks of steel which I suppose could be used as heat sinks, maybe. The tip about the Carrs solders is useful. I do have a solder station but I don't think the iron is 100W

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Re: CDR Railcar No. 10

Post by Lonsdaler » Mon Mar 23, 2020 5:49 pm

ge_rik wrote: Sun Mar 22, 2020 10:46 am I'd love to model her with the engine compartment doors open. Apparently, they often had to do this during the summer months to stop the engines from overheating. Trouble is, I'd then have to model at least half of the diesel engine.....

Rik
Not really railway related, but when in my early days as a firefighter, we had Rolls Royce petrol engined pumps, and whenever they were pumping for prolonged periods (stationary) we had to remove the engine cowling in the cab and open the windows - no bonnet to open, you see. ;)
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We used to call these appliances 'bombs', because most had a registration beginning BOM, although as you can see, ours was a MOM. 6 litre petrol, naturally aspirated, 4 speed box plus 2 power take offs. Very fast, but with ordinary drum brakes, brake fade on a run could create some hairy moments!
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Re: CDR Railcar No. 10

Post by ge_rik » Tue Mar 24, 2020 5:24 pm

Lonsdaler wrote: Mon Mar 23, 2020 5:49 pm Not really railway related, but when in my early days as a firefighter, we had Rolls Royce petrol engined pumps, and whenever they were pumping for prolonged periods (stationary) we had to remove the engine cowling in the cab and open the windows - no bonnet to open, you see. ;)
Taff Johns Dick Thompson Tony Grant 1979 Market place Dudley-01.jpeg
We used to call these appliances 'bombs', because most had a registration beginning BOM, although as you can see, ours was a MOM. 6 litre petrol, naturally aspirated, 4 speed box plus 2 power take offs. Very fast, but with ordinary drum brakes, brake fade on a run could create some hairy moments!
Great picture.
My dad was a firefighter in WW2. He was based on the Isle of Dogs in London (where he met my mum - she worked in the Control Room). I think the Docklands area was a bit of a favourite with the German bombers during the Blitz. Dad told me that when he joined up, they asked him to get in the cab of the appliance and drive down to the end of the road. That was the only test they gave him before signing him up!

Rik
Last edited by ge_rik on Tue Mar 24, 2020 5:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: CDR Railcar No. 10

Post by ge_rik » Tue Mar 24, 2020 5:29 pm

Latest update.
Now separated and cleaned up all the remaining bits.
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I've got most of them figured out, but there's still a few I can't decide what they are or where they go - mostly small, fiddly bits.

I've also realised that there are quite a few bits missing - which presumably would have been made of whitemetal or maybe resin castings. The radiator, the bogie sides, the interior of the cab I can make out of plasticard offcuts. The other bits, such as the curved roofs, the curved rear end of the passenger compartment and the 14 bus-type seats will be a bit more challenging. I might end up making a mould for the seats and casting them in resin.

Rik
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Re: CDR Railcar No. 10

Post by Andrew » Tue Mar 24, 2020 5:44 pm

ge_rik wrote: Tue Mar 24, 2020 5:24 pm
My dad was a firefighter in WW2. He was based on the Isle of Dogs in London (where he met my mum - she worked in the Control Room). I think the Docklands area was a bit of a favourite with the German bombers during the Blitz.
My Dad had a great book about that, written by an East End firefighter - he grew up in the area just after the war, but my Nan was bombed-out five times I think. The bit that really stuck in my mind is a horrifying account of how the RAF consulted with London firemen about their worst case scenarios so that they could recreate them in Dresden and other cities.

The book's at my Mum's, but when I can see her again I'll dig it out for you if you're interested?

Sorry, side-tracked there, but great work with the railcar!

Cheers,

Andrew

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Re: CDR Railcar No. 10

Post by ge_rik » Wed Mar 25, 2020 8:05 am

Andrew wrote: Tue Mar 24, 2020 5:44 pm
ge_rik wrote: Tue Mar 24, 2020 5:24 pm
My dad was a firefighter in WW2. He was based on the Isle of Dogs in London (where he met my mum - she worked in the Control Room). I think the Docklands area was a bit of a favourite with the German bombers during the Blitz.
My Dad had a great book about that, written by an East End firefighter - he grew up in the area just after the war, but my Nan was bombed-out five times I think. The bit that really stuck in my mind is a horrifying account of how the RAF consulted with London firemen about their worst case scenarios so that they could recreate them in Dresden and other cities.

The book's at my Mum's, but when I can see her again I'll dig it out for you if you're interested?

Sorry, side-tracked there, but great work with the railcar!

Cheers,

Andrew
Thanks Andrew
Yes very interested. My mum's recollections of the war are still very clear. Not so clear about what happened yesterday, though. I'm sure she'd recognise some of the people mentioned in the book.

Rik
PS If you let me have the title and author, I'll see if I can get her a copy. Give her something to do while she's in isolation.
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Re: CDR Railcar No. 10

Post by Andrew » Fri Mar 27, 2020 4:29 pm

Sorry for the delay Rik! Will send a pm!

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Re: CDR Railcar No. 10

Post by Tropic Blunder » Tue Mar 31, 2020 7:14 am

Looks like a pretty serious bit of kit! I cant wait to see how you go about Putting it together its going to be a heavy beastie.

Do you have any idea about what kind of motor was in number 10?
I'll probably end up drawing a motor for my Walker, that had a 6LW Gardener in it. Only drama is I only have drawings for a 6LXB which I believe is the same block but modernised and I cant get down to take detail photos of the 6LW in the TGR DP's or the VA until this virus blows over. If you're interested in one I'd have no problems printing one for you (and Graeme if you're interested) if you're happy to pay for postage and possibly wait for me to get more details for a bit?
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Re: CDR Railcar No. 10

Post by ge_rik » Tue Mar 31, 2020 9:32 am

Tropic Blunder wrote: Tue Mar 31, 2020 7:14 am Looks like a pretty serious bit of kit! I cant wait to see how you go about Putting it together its going to be a heavy beastie.

Do you have any idea about what kind of motor was in number 10?
I'll probably end up drawing a motor for my Walker, that had a 6LW Gardener in it. Only drama is I only have drawings for a 6LXB which I believe is the same block but modernised and I cant get down to take detail photos of the 6LW in the TGR DP's or the VA until this virus blows over. If you're interested in one I'd have no problems printing one for you (and Graeme if you're interested) if you're happy to pay for postage and possibly wait for me to get more details for a bit?
I've tried doing some digging on the web and found nothing specific about the engine in No. 10. However, any representation of a Gardner would suit me - far better than anything I could sculpt, so yes please. Happily pay postage.

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Re: CDR Railcar No. 10

Post by GTB » Tue Mar 31, 2020 10:36 am

Tropic Blunder wrote: Tue Mar 31, 2020 7:14 am Only drama is I only have drawings for a 6LXB which I believe is the same block but modernised and I cant get down to take detail photos of the 6LW in the TGR DP's or the VA until this virus blows over.
Jake, thanks for the offer, I do appreciate it. My Walker is the IOM type, similar to the VR 102HP, so the engine wasn't visible in traffic. I might find use for one in a diesel loco., but there's no screaming hurry.

As always, the devil is in the detail.......

The VR 102hp Walkers had a Gardner 6LW fitted and RM7 is preserved at Daylesford, awaiting restoration. The DSCR is closed for the duration, but probably more accessible than Tassie when the dust settles.

The 153hp Walkers at Healesville and Daylesford have a Gardner 6L3 as did the VA class, while the V class had the larger Gardner 8L3. Not sure what the visual differences were between the LW and L3 series.

CDR no. 10 was built in ‘32. I looked it up and the engine is described as a 75hp 6L2 Gardner. I think the 6L2 engines might have had individual cylinder heads, rather than the 2 groups of 3 on the 6LW series.

Regards,
Graeme

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Re: CDR Railcar No. 10

Post by ge_rik » Tue Mar 31, 2020 7:19 pm

OK - A bit more progress today on this build...

I had to modify the chassis to make it fit over the motor block. It was also a non obtrusive way for me to develop my brass soldering skills, which are still very rudimentary.
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I took a while on the dry run of the cab body. I wanted to find a way of fitting three 18650 li-ion cells into it. Although there would be plenty of room in the passenger compartment, I felt the cab should be where the main electrics should be located. I could only fit two cells in the engine compartment but .....
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..... after consulting plans and photos, I noticed there was an additional engine cover in the cab, which by happy coincidence was exactly the right size to accommodate the extra cell. A bit of hacking about was necessary but I can now squeeze three cells in.
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I needed to make an engine cover which wasn't part of the original kit, but I have the satisfaction that it is prototypical.
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It means I won't be able to model the railcar with the engine compartment open but I will need to construct another railcar to partner this one, so maybe that one will have an uncovered engine!.

It's beginning to take shape.
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It's very much a steep learning curve for me. One thing I have discovered is that melted solder runs downhill ...... so propping the model up to get the next seam angled the right way makes life a lot easier. I've also learned that it would be a lot easier if I had another hand - and that wearing a glove on the left hand does make life easier when things get a bit hot!

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Re: CDR Railcar No. 10

Post by Peter Butler » Tue Mar 31, 2020 7:40 pm

Great start Rik, well done. As you progress your skills will improve and you might go back to re-do something you are not quite sure about. One advantage of solder over adhesives is that it can easily be undone.
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Re: CDR Railcar No. 10

Post by LNR » Tue Mar 31, 2020 9:06 pm

Going well Rik, and another skill your learning due to garden railways.
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Re: CDR Railcar No. 10

Post by Jimmyb » Tue Mar 31, 2020 10:01 pm

Rik, I built a couple of 0 gauge models, and found using different temperature solders and a temperature controlled iron helps when adding parts to an assembly, i.e. the cooler solder and lower temperature does not melt the main assembly.

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Re: CDR Railcar No. 10

Post by Tropic Blunder » Wed Apr 01, 2020 3:51 am

That came together quick! Looking Excellent Rick, there is something about the crispness of brass thats often impossible to obtain with other modelling materials.

You are of course right Graeme, I haven't got any contacts at Daylesford so I wont be making the trek up there just for that, ill put a 6L3 in it as I just found a few photos from last time we did work on the VA.

Seems the main difference between the L3 and LW is in the location of the fuel pump and the front timing case thats quite different. It also has a shaft running out of the front timing cover for the Dynamo which is mounted towards the back of the motor on the LH side.
Jake

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