Garden Railway Forum

40 years ago I built a 10’ x 10’ garden shed partly for the kids bikes but it also housed a N gauge layout. Later it was taken over by my wife for her pottery ‘studio’ and I went G in the garden.
Now my wife can no longer do pottery, so I am dreaming of a small indoor G layout in the shed. I’d have an L shape maybe 7’ each side and 18” wide. With a train turntable 32" at one end.
Having perused the web for small layouts, I still not sure what I want, but...

I do want to initially use my existing small locos and wagons which are both 200mm (8”) long and with 100mm (4”) wheel bases. Maybe later I’d build smaller ones.

I did find on the web, that 24” diameter curves are possible, so I built a semi circle with the outer rail 12” radius to test. I doubt I’d ever use a full semicircle on a layout – this was just to be sure I could!
here’s the loco and 3 cars: showing possible centre buffers and a stupid looking bogie wagon – I was thinking of a 12” long passenger car, but would probably look horrible.


here’s a short video..
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dDhezQ4n4a4


I have realised that it would have to be a shunting layout and my hook and chain couplings would be a pain to use. I’d have to find something easier to couple up.

Anyone with ideas for track layouts or experience??

gregh wrote: ↑Sat Mar 30, 2019 12:55 am Anyone with ideas for track layouts or experience??

An inside layout would have it's attractions with the weather you've had lately, I would imagine.

Have a look at Carl Arendt's micro layout website. There are only a few large scale layouts on there, but the layouts in smaller scales use the same design principles.

http://www.carendt.com

Carl passed away a few years ago, but friends have maintained the site. I hadn't looked at it for a while and it seems to be being reconstructed.....


Regards,
Graeme

It's amazing how tight the curves can be. It looks like the loco speed wasn't even affected by the curve.

Rik

GTB wrote: ↑Sat Mar 30, 2019 7:03 am An inside layout would have it's attractions with the weather you've had lately, I would imagine.
Have a look at Carl Arendt's micro layout website. There are only a few large scale layouts on there, but the layouts in smaller scales use the same design principles.
http://www.carendt.com
Carl passed away a few years ago, but friends have maintained the site. I hadn't looked at it for a while and it seems to be being reconstructed.....
Regards,
Graeme

Yep, most of my research so far has been from his site. I did get lots of ideas about train turntables and sector plates to save space. I think I need to plan for 3 wagons plus loco as a train = 32".
I guess my main problem is that I don't know what I want to do. I've never been much into shunting . So just figuring out what to do with a given track plan is confusing to me. I was hoping someone here had tried small G scale.
My next step is to build a 12" rad turnout.

Hallo Greg,

we have in Germany http://www.regner-dampftechnik.de/, they offer a smallest gauge track system 30mm and lokomotives and waggons suitablle.

Klick on shop and RSSB and have patience, it is the slowest side I know.

Only for Your information. I do not have this system by myself, but I know it from a friend that it is very good engineered and relaiabel.

Delivery to "Down under" should not be a problem with DHL they prefere.

Best wishes

Frederic.

gregh wrote: ↑Sat Mar 30, 2019 10:17 pm I guess my main problem is that I don't know what I want to do. I've never been much into shunting . So just figuring out what to do with a given track plan is confusing to me. I was hoping someone here had tried small G scale.

I think the only way to find out what you like, is to try it. Since you already have suitable stock for a micro line and can make your own track, just knock up a simple shunting layout and find out if it floats your boat.

An Inglenook is only two turnouts and a few feet of track, so not a great investment in either time or materials. If you like puzzles, then running an Inglenook to the published rules (which are on the net), might keep you amused on a miserable winter afternoon in Sydney.

Small layouts in any scale are pretty much either shunting puzzles, or exhibition style tailchasers. Given your abilities with electrickery, you might also get some amusement out of either layout type by automating the layout and building assorted working features.

Regards,
Graeme

GTB wrote: ↑Sun Mar 31, 2019 12:38 pm I think the only way to find out what you like, is to try it. Since you already have suitable stock for a micro line and can make your own track, just knock up a simple shunting layout and find out if it floats your boat.
An Inglenook is only two turnouts and a few feet of track, so not a great investment in either time or materials. If you like puzzles, then running an Inglenook to the published rules (which are on the net), might keep you amused on a miserable winter afternoon in Sydney.
Small layouts in any scale are pretty much either shunting puzzles, or exhibition style tailchasers. Given your abilities with electrickery, you might also get some amusement out of either layout type by automating the layout and building assorted working features.
Regards,
Graeme

I think you've hit the nail on the head. Just trying to get some parameters fixed - you know min radius, can I make swivelling turnouts to save space and how small can I make them. How long a train do I really need etc etc.
Not into puzzles or timing how fast I can do a shunt, but can already see some scope for animation of other aspects. eg I'd like one of those small wagon turntables used in factories, but how to push a wagon on and off it?
I will have another look at the Inglenook layout - I glossed over them as I assume they were to fit in a fireplace.

f.schulz wrote: ↑Sun Mar 31, 2019 2:09 am Hallo Greg,
we have in Germany http://www.regner-dampftechnik.de/, they offer a smallest gauge track system 30mm and lokomotives and waggons suitablle.
Klick on shop and RSSB and have patience, it is the slowest side I know.
Only for Your information. I do not have this system by myself, but I know it from a friend that it is very good engineered and relaiabel.
Delivery to "Down under" should not be a problem with DHL they prefere.
Best wishes
Frederic.

Thank you Frederic. A great site with some beautiful models

I had an idea for a 'swiveling turnout (I've used them on the garden line) but this time because it is only 8" long, I could allow it to rotate 360 degrees. So with some geometry and trigonometry, I think I can get a turnout 8" long that can access SIX tracks !
This video is a cardboard mockup of the arrangement - now to try and build one!

Looks a feasible option.
Many years ago I was involved with a OO layout that used a not disimilar principle to allow a single scenic running line access to multiple fiddle yard sidings. In that case we used a sliding traverser about 8 or 10" long, with 5 short sections of line on it. One was straight through and on both sides of it were two curves of different radii fanning out, from touching at the 'feed' end to meeting sidings spacing lines at the other. It worked extremely well for many years of exhibiting around the country.

gregh wrote: ↑Tue Apr 02, 2019 4:59 am I think I can get a turnout 8" long that can access SIX tracks !

The Listowel & Ballybunion Railway was a Lartigue monorail and used something similar for working the station at Ballybunion, but as far as I can tell from the photo that was only five tracks.

As always, there's a protype for everything..........

Regards,
Graeme

GTB wrote: ↑Tue Apr 02, 2019 8:41 am The Listowel & Ballybunion Railway was a Lartigue monorail and used something similar for working the station at Ballybunion, but as far as I can tell from the photo that was only five tracks.
As always, there's a protype for everything..........
Regards,
Graeme

I visited Listowel in 2010. Maybe the idea has been lurking in the back of my head since then?

Nice idea Greg, looks to be a great idea for the winter and keep you amused and busy when the weather is horrible. Like the turntable idea also, be an interesting read indeed.

FWLR wrote: ↑Sat May 11, 2019 12:41 pm Nice idea Greg, looks to be a great idea for the winter and keep you amused and busy when the weather is horrible. Like the turntable idea also, be an interesting read indeed.

Haven't done any work recently - hurt me shoulder, so no hammering, sawing etc.
But plenty of dreaming (planning) time!

Looking forward to seeing it develop, Greg. Always admired your swivelling turnouts. Surprising they never caught on in the real world (apart from on monorails as Graeme pointed out).

Rik

One month later....

Before I ‘committed’ to starting ripping out shelves etc. in the shed, I want to prove that I could build a ‘rotating’ turnout and that I could get a small train to go through a reverse curve of 11” radius.
So I built one! I used some plastic rail I had bought years ago from Train-Li USA and nailed it to a piece of 6mm MDF. I was originally doing it all ‘ by eye’ but I figured I should try and figure out the geometry. So after a while I was able to determine the equations to calculate the track curve radius for a chosen turnout diameter. I wanted to use a 20cm dia turnout as my small locos are that length. It turns out that I need the curved track on the circle to be centreline of 30.8 cm and the turnout must rotate by 18 degrees to allow the tracks to clear each other.

This video might explain it better... (Note: it is not the same video as before, even though I used the same Title page)


It IS quite difficult to get all the tracks lined up, but IS possible.
So I guess I can proceed with getting the shed cleaned out. Next, I’ll try to use magnets to hold the tracks in alignment

This is a vague idea of a possible layout. The trains will be limited to 60cm length (three wagons) plus the 20cm long loco. There will be a similar station at either end of a 5m long line, on two levels separated by about 25cm vertically.
The next thing to check is that my little locos can haul 3 wagons up a 1:16 grade on a 30cm radius curve. (or more importantly, can I even build a 30cm radius track on a 1:16 grade????)

Nicely done Greg, I do like a bit of operational shunting with magnetic uncouplers!

Brilliant Greg I think the way you have made it slightly smaller gives you even running options

I like the way the wagons paused before taking the curve as if to say "Really!?" To be serious, though, this is really clever. I wonder if (apart from the Latrigue monorail system which I think Graeme (GTB) mentioned), anyone has constructed anything like it in the real world.

Rik

gregh wrote: ↑Thu Jun 20, 2019 9:58 am The next thing to check is that my little locos can haul 3 wagons up a 1:16 grade on a 30cm radius curve. (or more importantly, can I even build a 30cm radius track on a 1:16 grade????)

Verrrrrry interesting.......

Turntables and sharp curves were common enough in factories and quarries and there are some odd things to be seen in a Hudson catalogue, but I've not seen a turntable that combined curved and straight rails.......

I've no experience of building a 300mm curve on a 1:16 grade in 45mm gauge. I've done it in the distant past on the lounge room carpet with old Tri-ang track though, so you could always convert to building the layout in Gn15, if all else fails.

Those turntables are crying out to be automated with a stepper motor and a micro controller of some sort.

Regards,
Graeme