Dreaming of a small Indoor layout

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gregh
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Re: Dreaming of a small Indoor layout

Post by gregh » Thu Jun 20, 2019 9:58 am

One month later....

Before I ‘committed’ to starting ripping out shelves etc. in the shed, I want to prove that I could build a ‘rotating’ turnout and that I could get a small train to go through a reverse curve of 11” radius.
So I built one! I used some plastic rail I had bought years ago from Train-Li USA and nailed it to a piece of 6mm MDF. I was originally doing it all ‘ by eye’ but I figured I should try and figure out the geometry. So after a while I was able to determine the equations to calculate the track curve radius for a chosen turnout diameter. I wanted to use a 20cm dia turnout as my small locos are that length. It turns out that I need the curved track on the circle to be centreline of 30.8 cm and the turnout must rotate by 18 degrees to allow the tracks to clear each other.

This video might explain it better... (Note: it is not the same video as before, even though I used the same Title page)


It IS quite difficult to get all the tracks lined up, but IS possible.
So I guess I can proceed with getting the shed cleaned out. Next, I’ll try to use magnets to hold the tracks in alignment

This is a vague idea of a possible layout. The trains will be limited to 60cm length (three wagons) plus the 20cm long loco. There will be a similar station at either end of a 5m long line, on two levels separated by about 25cm vertically.
single line1.jpg

The next thing to check is that my little locos can haul 3 wagons up a 1:16 grade on a 30cm radius curve. (or more importantly, can I even build a 30cm radius track on a 1:16 grade????)
Greg from downunder.
The Sandstone & Termite's website: http://www.members.optusnet.com.au/satr/satr.htm

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Re: Dreaming of a small Indoor layout

Post by tom_tom_go » Thu Jun 20, 2019 10:38 am

Nicely done Greg, I do like a bit of operational shunting with magnetic uncouplers!

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Re: Dreaming of a small Indoor layout

Post by FWLR » Thu Jun 20, 2019 10:59 am

Brilliant Greg I think the way you have made it slightly smaller gives you even running options
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Re: Dreaming of a small Indoor layout

Post by ge_rik » Thu Jun 20, 2019 2:29 pm

I like the way the wagons paused before taking the curve as if to say "Really!?" To be serious, though, this is really clever. I wonder if (apart from the Latrigue monorail system which I think Graeme (GTB) mentioned), anyone has constructed anything like it in the real world.

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Re: Dreaming of a small Indoor layout

Post by GTB » Thu Jun 20, 2019 3:29 pm

gregh wrote:
Thu Jun 20, 2019 9:58 am
The next thing to check is that my little locos can haul 3 wagons up a 1:16 grade on a 30cm radius curve. (or more importantly, can I even build a 30cm radius track on a 1:16 grade????)
Verrrrrry interesting.......

Turntables and sharp curves were common enough in factories and quarries and there are some odd things to be seen in a Hudson catalogue, but I've not seen a turntable that combined curved and straight rails.......

I've no experience of building a 300mm curve on a 1:16 grade in 45mm gauge. I've done it in the distant past on the lounge room carpet with old Tri-ang track though, so you could always convert to building the layout in Gn15, if all else fails.

Those turntables are crying out to be automated with a stepper motor and a micro controller of some sort.

Regards,
Graeme

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Re: Dreaming of a small Indoor layout

Post by -steves- » Thu Jun 20, 2019 3:31 pm

Also looking forwards to seeing the finished turnouts, as Rik said, I am surprised they are not produced commerciallyby someone already. :thumbup:
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Re: Dreaming of a small Indoor layout

Post by gregh » Sun Jun 23, 2019 5:58 am

So having proved that the circular turnout works, now to prove I get get the 3 wagon train up a 1’ radius, 6% grade. I had made a bit of aluminium 1’ rad track earlier (see post #1).
It is very rigid but I was able to put it on a 6% grade for tests. And the train worked OK.
See this video…..


Here is the layout plan ‘so far’ Since it will be in my wife’s old pottery ‘studio’ it will be a line that connects a clay quarry and a pottery factory. It’s two-level, if you can follow the dwg..
IMG_8954J .jpg

One last problem to overcome – I use hook and chain couplings on the garden line, but since the indoor will be for shunting. I’ll need couplings that are easier to operate. Hmmmm…. Something magnetic? Or hook and loop?
Greg from downunder.
The Sandstone & Termite's website: http://www.members.optusnet.com.au/satr/satr.htm

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Re: Dreaming of a small Indoor layout

Post by gregh » Sun Jun 23, 2019 6:02 am

GTB wrote:
Thu Jun 20, 2019 3:29 pm
Those turntables are crying out to be automated with a stepper motor and a micro controller of some sort.
Regards,
Graeme
Much as I love electronics, I doubt that will ever happen. Nice dream though.
Greg from downunder.
The Sandstone & Termite's website: http://www.members.optusnet.com.au/satr/satr.htm

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Re: Dreaming of a small Indoor layout

Post by tom_tom_go » Sun Jun 23, 2019 9:47 am

Magnetic couplings are the way to go:


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Re: Dreaming of a small Indoor layout

Post by GTB » Sun Jun 23, 2019 9:47 am

gregh wrote:
Sun Jun 23, 2019 5:58 am
And the train worked OK.
That's good, you are cooking with gas now.......

I'm not much help with couplers, especially on that sort of curve. Hook and loop are pretty much bullet proof though, if you can stand the appearance.

Maybe experiment with something like Rik's bent wire ones, which are unobtrusive, especially if you use magnets for uncoupling instead of ramps.

Regards,
Graeme

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Re: Dreaming of a small Indoor layout

Post by idlemarvel » Sun Jun 23, 2019 9:49 am

Very carefully planned and tested, Greg, it deserves to be a success. Well done and thanks for documenting this for the benefit of others.
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Re: Dreaming of a small Indoor layout

Post by philipy » Sun Jun 23, 2019 10:24 am

gregh wrote:
Sun Jun 23, 2019 5:58 am


Here is the layout plan ‘so far’ Since it will be in my wife’s old pottery ‘studio’
It looks to be a real masterpiece in the making. One question though, what are the O/A dims?

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Re: Dreaming of a small Indoor layout

Post by Dwayne » Sun Jun 23, 2019 1:01 pm

:thumbright:

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Re: Dreaming of a small Indoor layout

Post by gregh » Mon Jun 24, 2019 5:05 am

philipy wrote:
Sun Jun 23, 2019 10:24 am
It looks to be a real masterpiece in the making. One question though, what are the O/A dims?
You can scale off the plan but it is 2.0m on the right side, 2.8m across and 1.2m on the left side (triangular bit)
tom_tom_go wrote:
Sun Jun 23, 2019 9:47 am
Magnetic couplings are the way to go:
They are a fantastic idea Tom. Very, very clever. I have always liked the centre chopper types. BUT how would they go on the tight curves? They would have to 'swivel' a lot. Can they do that?
IMG_8881.JPG

When I said magnetic I was thinking of this type of thing - 2 magnets - one north pole and one south pole so a wagon could always 'grab' another.
IMG_9152.JPG
IMG_9149.JPG
These were just experiments - not completely successful. They are too 'wiggly' and can get all tied up!
I haven't really thought about how to get them uncoupled.
Greg from downunder.
The Sandstone & Termite's website: http://www.members.optusnet.com.au/satr/satr.htm

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Re: Dreaming of a small Indoor layout

Post by philipy » Mon Jun 24, 2019 7:40 am

gregh wrote:
Mon Jun 24, 2019 5:05 am

tom_tom_go wrote:
Sun Jun 23, 2019 9:47 am
Magnetic couplings are the way to go:
They are a fantastic idea Tom. Very, very clever. I have always liked the centre chopper types. BUT how would they go on the tight curves? They would have to 'swivel' a lot. Can they do that?
Greg,
Just a thought for you - I've also always liked the way Tom's magnetic choppers work, but only having one Accucraft fitted loco it has never been economically viable to retrofit them to everything. I've played with various other DIY couplings thoughts but never found anything that I'm happy with. Then about 3 weeks ago, looking again at Tom's video of them in action I remembered that I had 3d printed some extra coupling pockets for him some while back, and that got me wondering whether I could actually print a whole coupling.
So far it's looking hopeful, the only bit left to do is fit the self-centring springs, which are currently somewhere on the way from China. The printed couplings I've played with so far have been to basically the same dims as Accucraft, but there is no reason as far as I can see why the pockets couldn't be made as wide as necessary to allow for whatever side play is required to go round your curves. The only slight unknown is the size of spring necessary to not get knotted. That then might require the pocket to be made longer and that in turn might increase the amount of swivel required, and that then might in require a longer spring, etc ....!

I can't post any pics atm, because I'm away, but will when I get back.

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