Handmade Track - Wooden Sleepers (Ties)

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IrishPeter
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Handmade Track - Wooden Sleepers (Ties)

Post by IrishPeter » Mon Dec 11, 2017 11:34 pm

OK, the sleeper strip I ordered a week ago arrived today. If I were building a Maine Two-footer line in 16mm it would be perfect, but I am aiming more towards 2'6" gauge in 1:22.5 scale, so it does not quite hit the spot - like ice cold Guinness. So it looks like I am going to have to take the plunge and build it myself - wooden sleeper, spikes, and well-hammered fingers. So I have a list of newbie questions...

1. What type of strip wood for ties? The usual soft woods are readily available around here as it wood preservative, so I was thinking along the lines of using nominal half inch and soaking it well in preservative in the hopes of getting a 7 to 10 year life out of it.
2. Any recommendations when it comes to spikes?
3. Any advice on jigs?
4. Four or six spikes per sleeper? I think I am used to seeing four per sleeper (two a side) on straight track, and three a side on the outside rail on curves.

Any other thoughts?

Thank you,
Peter in Va
Last edited by IrishPeter on Thu Dec 14, 2017 2:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Traffic Pattern? What pattern? Spuds out; grain in, but cattle, sheep and passengers are a lot less predictable.

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Re: Wooden Sleepers (Ties)

Post by LNR » Tue Dec 12, 2017 6:15 am

Hi Peter,
I don't consider myself a handlaid track person, however I did build 6ft. of it for the siding at Warringine ( can't for the life of me remember why!)
I used treated pine soaked in diesel oil for about a week, and spiked the track down ( one spike each side of each rail) with s/s spikes, which were not what I wanted as I'd been told they work there way out too easily. Thankfully they haven't, and the track has been there for at least 7 years.
Personally I think the less spike holes in timber of that size the better due to splitting etc. I think I've read many times that in the US they tend to use Redwood or is it red Cedar for outdoor timber structures because of it's resistance to rotting. Being a boat-builder, you couldn't go past white oak for rot resistance although it's cost may be prohibitive.
Don't consider this expert advice, merely my experience so far!
Grant.

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Re: Wooden Sleepers (Ties)

Post by philipy » Tue Dec 12, 2017 6:34 am

Aah nose nozzin', but I think Dwayne is your man for hand built spiked track.
Philip

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Re: Wooden Sleepers (Ties)

Post by bazzer42 » Tue Dec 12, 2017 8:10 am

Might also be worth a nose around the SE lounge site. Some of the serious 7/8th guys are definitely build your own lest ye be cast out......

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Re: Wooden Sleepers (Ties)

Post by Todsmods » Wed Dec 13, 2017 6:58 pm

Hi ive been handlayng track for about 18 years
I use merbou and stainless steel spikers
Also i dont treat the merbou as its a tropical hardwood.

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Re: Wooden Sleepers (Ties)

Post by tom_tom_go » Wed Dec 13, 2017 7:38 pm

Maybe save your sanity and buy ready made track :mrgreen:

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IrishPeter
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Re: Wooden Sleepers (Ties)

Post by IrishPeter » Wed Dec 13, 2017 8:55 pm

tom_tom_go wrote: Wed Dec 13, 2017 7:38 pm Maybe save your sanity and buy ready made track :mrgreen:
That would usually be my first option, but I have plenty of rail to hand, being the overage from the last railway which I dismantled about a year ago. The new version of the Skebawn and Castleknox needs a lot less track than the old, so the surplus is earmarked for the Coverdale Light out in the yard.

Peter in Va.
Last edited by IrishPeter on Wed Dec 13, 2017 10:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Traffic Pattern? What pattern? Spuds out; grain in, but cattle, sheep and passengers are a lot less predictable.

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Re: Wooden Sleepers (Ties)

Post by Big Jim » Wed Dec 13, 2017 9:44 pm

I think the old 'Bonds' track used hardwood and these lasted for years, I don't know what type of wood it was though. I have some salvaged from a layout that was outside for at least 15 years and they can't all have been replaced. I assume they were treated regularly although they no longer smell of anything creasotey.

The last time I made any pointwork. I photocopied the plans and pinned them to a bit of sundeala board, I then used PVA to stick the sleepers to the plan and built it up from there. The paper can then be torn off. If the radius is tight you may need to use a few panel pins to hold the sleepers in place as well.
If at first you don't succeed, use a bigger hammer!

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Re: Handmade Track - Wooden Sleepers (Ties)

Post by Dwayne » Sun Dec 17, 2017 9:35 pm

Peter, I use treated "dog-ear" fence pickets from Home Depot or Lowes. At best it looks as though I'll be able to get 4-5 years out of this wood. Of course my climate it more dry than yours in Virginia. But because I enjoy track maintenance (seriously, I do)... tie inspection and replacement isn't a bother. The caveat being that my mainline is only about 100 feet total so it's not overwhelming.

I rip the fence pickets to 1/2" on my table saw. Because my track rests directly on dirt they need not be 1/2" square. If resting on blocks or concrete, then squaring them will likely have to be done requiring a second rip of each strip. These strips are cut to 4.5" - 5" lengths. They all go into a plastic covered storage container and are sprayed down with water to soak about 24 hours prior to use. This softens the wood which helps with the spiking process.

Ties are space about 1"- 1.5 " apart when laying the aluminum code 250 rail. I use a railbender for bending the rail.

My spikes are 5/8" x 19 wire nails*. I've modified a pair of needle nose pliers to hold the nails in their jaws and then just push them into the ties using two spikes per side or four spikes per rail. Use a nailset for the more difficult nails to seat them snug against the base of the rail. These nails will rust and hold things together fairly well. Occasionally there will be a failure but it's not difficult to repair.

*link to an ebay source --> https://www.ebay.com/itm/750-WIRE-NAILS ... SwRLZT~0-l

I use four 45mm track gauges to keep the rail in gauge as I begin to spike everything. I can spike a 6-foot section in about one hour. Switches take about 3-4 hours each. Aside from keeping the rail in gauge, I eyeball the spacing and placement of the ties. Definitely yields a narrow gauge appearance as a result.

So there you have it. This method works for me and my climate. It's cheap and quick.

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Re: Handmade Track - Wooden Sleepers (Ties)

Post by IrishPeter » Mon Dec 18, 2017 3:51 am

Thank you, Dwayne, that helps enormously. Virginia is not that wet, as the rain fall is comparable with what I grew up with on the east coast of England, so you are looking at about 30" a year. What works for you will probably work here provided I have a free draining formation so that the sleepers do not stand in a wet environment for extended periods of time. I would never have attempted wooden sleepers in AZ - the local insect life would have chomped their way through it in next to no time.

Cheers,
Peter in Va
Traffic Pattern? What pattern? Spuds out; grain in, but cattle, sheep and passengers are a lot less predictable.

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Dwayne
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Re: Handmade Track - Wooden Sleepers (Ties)

Post by Dwayne » Mon Dec 18, 2017 2:19 pm

Glad to share. Interestingly Oklahoma City has an average rainfall total of 36 inches spread out over 84 days with most of it falling in the spring. Very often we'll go through extended periods of no rain. Currently it's been two months since our last rainfall.

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Re: Handmade Track - Wooden Sleepers (Ties)

Post by IrishPeter » Mon Dec 18, 2017 2:31 pm

Apparently the 30" figure I quoted was what we had last year, which was exceptionally dry. The 80 year average is 44" with January and February the driest months (2.5") and July and August potentially the wettest (not far off 5"). A lot of our rainfall depends on the track tropical storms take as they come up the East Coast. If they run up the coast a few miles off shore, then we don't get much rain, but if they come up through GA, SC, NC, and hit us square on in VA then we have a bucket load. This fall has been very dry with no significant rainfall since early November. One thing I have really noticed is that we tend not to get the sort of torrential downpours that I used to see in AZ, and cause so much havoc on my old outdoor line. There I would get significant washouts, and had to rebuilt whole sections of line from time to time.

I am assuming that the major problem with wooden sleepers here is that they are going to be wet a lot of the time unless I really make an all out effort on the drainage. I have a preference for much of the line being ground level laid on a good thick layer of chippings belted down firm with the end of a 4 x 4 post, then levelled up using a thin layer of crusher fines, and then add the track, and a final layer of fines to bring the ballast up to sleep level in the middle, but I like it shouldered off at the edges to allow for drainage. When I am interested my engineering methods are at the E. R. Calthrop end of narrow gauge practice, when I am getting bored with track laying it is much more Bord na Mona or the "Wonky Tramway" which causes problems later on!

Cheers,
Peter in Va
Traffic Pattern? What pattern? Spuds out; grain in, but cattle, sheep and passengers are a lot less predictable.

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Re: Handmade Track - Wooden Sleepers (Ties)

Post by Sleeper Agent » Thu May 24, 2018 9:56 pm

I'm planning to order some SM32 and G3 track from Cliff Barker's site when an owed wad comes into my account but as the first diorama i'm planning to actually build will be indoors I think wood would be 'fun' to try, as the layout I have in mind is a simple one road type and free of points, or at least in the scenic section. The track is to essentially be based on the Talyllyn but i'm not quite a chair bolt counter. That said are there are any particular recommendations here for a fresh start as i've not long decided to leave 4mm behind and don't know one track supplier from the other (I live in the UK).

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Re: Handmade Track - Wooden Sleepers (Ties)

Post by tom_tom_go » Thu May 24, 2018 10:05 pm

Peco do cheap rail chairs:

https://www.track-shack.com/acatalog/Pe ... L-802.html

Cut your own sleepers from strip wood available at most DIY shops.

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Re: Handmade Track - Wooden Sleepers (Ties)

Post by Sleeper Agent » Sun May 27, 2018 1:03 pm

Thanks for the tip. I'll be attending the upcoming Accucraft open day as well as the Llechfan Garden Railway Gala so i'll hold off till then before making an order on Cliff's site or with anyone else.

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Re: Handmade Track - Wooden Sleepers (Ties)

Post by pandsrowe » Mon May 28, 2018 8:50 am

Sadly the quality of timber available nowadays leaves a great deal to be desired even after being treated with so called preservative. I have given up with using soft wood on my railway as it just does not last. However, suitably treated hardwood ramin, iroko etc. does seem to last. I sliced up some iroko from an old door on my bandsaw to use as fencing and I have been very pleased with it's longevity, true there has been some colour fading but no other deterioration over about five years and some of this has been outside permanently, probably going to see me out!
Phil

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Re: Handmade Track - Wooden Sleepers (Ties)

Post by tom_tom_go » Mon May 28, 2018 8:58 am

He wants this for an indoor layout only which is why I suggested strip wood. I would not even bother with wood sleepers outside although I live in the UK so in other climates they may fair better with appropriate maintenance.

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