Chain shunting

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tom_tom_go
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Chain shunting

Post by tom_tom_go » Thu Apr 26, 2018 10:11 pm

This setup might add operational interest to a line in the garden (ignore crap music):


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Peter Butler
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Re: Chain shunting

Post by Peter Butler » Thu Apr 26, 2018 10:35 pm

Nifty work getting the van out of there but how do you get it back in?
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Re: Chain shunting

Post by FWLR » Fri Apr 27, 2018 7:54 am

With plenty of very strong people Peter…. :lol: :lol: :lol:

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Re: Chain shunting

Post by ge_rik » Fri Apr 27, 2018 9:10 am

I'm wondering if there was another capstan at the head of the siding. Not quite the same but this video suggests two capstans are involved:



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Re: Chain shunting

Post by tom_tom_go » Fri Apr 27, 2018 9:15 am

I saw that video after posted the first one Rik and thought the same thing.

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Re: Chain shunting

Post by Peter Butler » Fri Apr 27, 2018 10:03 am

Wonderful stuff, loved both videos. Is the 'real life' one shot at Bristol docks?
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Re: Chain shunting

Post by philipy » Fri Apr 27, 2018 10:08 am

Capstan shunting and chain shunting aren't quite the same thing though.
The capstans are themselves powered ( hence the metal access plates around it) so you could have one at the back end of the 'alley'.
For chain shunting it in using what we can see, the chain would need to go from the loco, round the external vertical pulley, all the way to the far end of the alley, round another pulley and back to the wagon on the turntable! I suspect that there must be a winch of some sort in the warehouse/factory at the far end.
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Re: Chain shunting

Post by Lonsdaler » Fri Apr 27, 2018 10:14 am

Just deleted my reply because Philip beat me to it, and explained it more eloquently! :D
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Re: Chain shunting

Post by IanC » Fri Apr 27, 2018 10:37 am

tom_tom_go wrote: ↑Thu Apr 26, 2018 10:11 pm This setup might add operational interest to a line in the garden (ignore crap music):
I like that idea. I might keep it for my "yet to be built" line. I did see a line with a chain worked incline with a winding house at the top. Sadly the owner remodelled the line and never completed it.

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Re: Chain shunting

Post by ge_rik » Fri Apr 27, 2018 10:47 am

Peter Butler wrote: ↑Fri Apr 27, 2018 10:03 am Wonderful stuff, loved both videos. Is the 'real life' one shot at Bristol docks?
Yes, Bristol.

From 0:43 they are hauling the wagons back using the same powered capstan, suggesting the rope must pass around another unpowered capstan at the far end. My thinking is that a similar arrangement might have been used to pull the wagon into the siding when chain shunting in the first video. I appreciate the motive power is different but the principles are broadly similar.

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Re: Chain shunting

Post by IanC » Fri Apr 27, 2018 12:00 pm

ge_rik wrote: ↑Fri Apr 27, 2018 10:47 am
Peter Butler wrote: ↑Fri Apr 27, 2018 10:03 am Wonderful stuff, loved both videos. Is the 'real life' one shot at Bristol docks?
Yes, Bristol.

From 0:43 they are hauling the wagons back using the same powered capstan, suggesting the rope must pass around another unpowered capstan at the far end. My thinking is that a similar arrangement might have been used to pull the wagon into the siding when chain shunting in the first video. I appreciate the motive power is different but the principles are broadly similar.

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Rik's explanation makes sense to me.

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Re: Chain shunting

Post by FWLR » Sat Apr 28, 2018 6:41 am

Great video of Bristol Docks, it’s another wonderful thing about the workings of Railways and how there was and still are I expect, some brilliant engineers around. :thumbright:

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Re: Chain shunting

Post by Peter Butler » Sat Apr 28, 2018 11:05 am

Oops..... red face time here, just watched the video again and noticed the title clearly describes the activity at Bristol..... just shows how observant I am!
In defence I was watching the movement more than the words...... silly me.
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Re: Chain shunting

Post by Soar Valley Light » Sat Apr 28, 2018 2:52 pm

Point of order here chaps.

I think chains and ropes are being confused. I've only ever seen capstan shunting performed with ropes and I'm pretty sure the same applies to inclined planes (aka rope worked inclines - the clue is in the title!). Chains have a much greater tendency to snag. If they snag on themselves going round a capstan the incoming end risks going back round and being pulled back on to the pulley, with the consequent risks to all involved.

The problem with ropes is the risk of them snapping under heavy strain and the whiplash that follows. I remember when I worked at the Coal Board being told stories of decapitations underground resulting from snapped ropes! I believe it was this risk that resulted in chains being used for TOWING in some locations. It was certainly a chain used with shunting horses.

As Phil stated, capstans were generally (but not always) powered. This was handy as they avoided the need for any sort of motive power - a handy thing in the warehouses they were often located in. Towing definitely requires independent motive power, usually a loco, or originally more often a horse and latterly sometimes a road vehicle.

All these operations pose a greater or lesser risk to the staff (and horses!) involved. These are primarily from being hit by snapped ropes or getting tangled up in ropes or chains when any slack occurs and being dragged along or into things. For these reasons they were always performed by experienced men and only where specially authorised, the risk being recognised by management.

The only thing more dangerous was prop shunting - but that's another story! :study:

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Re: Chain shunting

Post by steamer68 » Sat Apr 28, 2018 3:05 pm

Great stuff both videos were great. :thumbright:
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Re: Chain shunting

Post by philipy » Sat Apr 28, 2018 3:20 pm

"Merger talks between British supermarket chains Sainsbury's and Asda are at an "advanced" stage."

Now THAT is real chain shunting! :roll: :lol:
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Re: Chain shunting

Post by Soar Valley Light » Sun Apr 29, 2018 9:20 pm

philipy wrote: ↑Sat Apr 28, 2018 3:20 pm "Merger talks between British supermarket chains Sainsbury's and Asda are at an "advanced" stage."

Now THAT is real chain shunting! :roll: :lol:
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Re: Chain shunting

Post by FWLR » Mon Apr 30, 2018 7:02 am

philipy wrote: ↑Sat Apr 28, 2018 3:20 pm "Merger talks between British supermarket chains Sainsbury's and Asda are at an "advanced" stage."

Now THAT is real chain shunting! :roll: :lol:
:laughing3: :laughing3: :laughing3: Like Andrew, that is so funny.

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Re: Chain shunting

Post by dewintondave » Sat May 05, 2018 5:54 am

How about a steam powered capstan in our shunting yards?
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Re: Chain shunting

Post by tom_tom_go » Sat May 05, 2018 9:14 am

dewintondave wrote: ↑Sat May 05, 2018 5:54 am How about a steam powered capstan in our shunting yards?
I reckon a Mamod traction engine taken apart plus some gearing could do that?

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