Lighting up an Accucraft Locomotive - Liquid Gas Woes

[Chris Cairns]

Last year I bought an Accucraft Ragleth so that I could run on 32mm & 45mm layouts, and for use at exhibitions, etc. Whilst it is a great runner and easily maintained I do find the gas tank design with liquid gas flowing to the burner initially a hindrance.

There are 2 recommended firing techniques to overcome this liquid gas problem, and as there is little documented proof that the second technique works, I decided to carry out a trial with my Accucraft fleet.

Technique 1 – After filling the gas tank full, prior to initial light up open the gas regulator for 5 secs to get purge the liquid gas first. I’ve never had much success with this technique, and equally if you watch Chris Bird’s excellent introductory Ragleth video even he had problems - https://youtu.be/l3WNJ-9XL94

He opens the gas regulator for 5 secs until the gas jet blocks. After clearing the jet he opens the gas regulator for 2 secs to confirm all is OK. He then opens the gas regulator for a further 11 secs to purge the liquid gas. This is all done indoors in a quiet environment. The gas regulator is opened again for light up which occurs 2 secs later. So that is a total of 20 secs prior to light up. And what happens – the burner goes out shortly afterwards! When he relights it, it then pulses initially. So video proof that the 5 secs purge does not always work.

Technique 2 – Partially fill the gas tank, light up and raise working pressure. Turn off gas burner and refill gas tank to full (it should be warm now so will hold less quantity). Light up and continue with locomotive running.

Thus technique has been raised a couple of times on these Forums and I asked if anyone had measured how much water they had remaining after using this technique. As there was no reply to that enquiry I decided to run my own trial.

Caradoc – This was purchased 2nd hand from fellow 16mm NGM Group member earlier this year, but I’m not sure which gas jet it has fitted. For its first Garden Railway run I decided to try out this technique although did not record any timings, etc. It took 2 goes to get it to light initially, and the same happened after refilling the gas tank. At the end of its run I was left with only 15 mls of water which I think is too low for these boilers. However it is fitted with a water filler valve which got me thinking about how to adapt Technique 2 slightly.

Edrig – This came 2nd hand off eBay. I’ve fitted a No.5 gas jet from Chuffed2Bits, it had a proper Ronson filler valve retrofitted to the gas tank, and has a Summerlands Chuffer fitted. I struggled to get it lit initially after a partial gas tank fill, but when finally lit it took 07:30 mins to raise 40 PSI and clear the cylinders. Gas tank refilled to full, and after waiting 2 mins I tried lighting up again. This was still a problem and I did get a large flame out of the smokebox door. After finally lit up it took 04:00 mins to raise 40 PSI and clear the cylinders again. I ran it with a train for 11:30 mins then using a Jacksons Miniature Superior water filler bottle gave it 35 pumps of water which dropped the pressure by 20 PSI, and it then ran with the train again for a further 12:30 mins. This loco has 2 channel R/C so I was running it on full reverser and adjusting the regulator as necessary. Water remaining after this run was a very comfortable 85 mls.

Ragleth – This was brand new last year and has a factory fitted No.5 gas jet. Up till now I’ve been using a standard gas lighter with a open flame and I’ve been applying that flame at the front entrance of the boiler flue. I’d just bought a flexi hose gas lighter from Aldi which is supposed to be windproof, but when I applied the flame in the same manner it was blown out by the gas. By withdrawing this lighter so the flame is in the smokebox rather than the flue the burner light up OK. It took 09:00 mins to raise 40 PSI and clear the cylinders. Gas tank refilled to full, and after waiting 2 mins the burner was lit up again OK. Took 04:00 mins to raise 40 PSI and clear the cylinders again. I ran it with a train for 11:15 mins, and again using a Jacksons Miniature Superior water filler bottle gave it 35 pumps of water which dropped the pressure by 25 PSI. It took a little longer to restore the pressure compared to the Edrig, but it ran with the train again for a further 17:00 mins. This loco has single channel R/C fitted so I was using a fixed position regulator and varying the reverser as necessary. Water remaining after this run was a very comfortable 65 mls.

So Technique 2 worked well with the Ragleth, but not with the Edrig. I have now learnt that I’ve been applying the gas lighter flame in the wrong place, but the problem with the open flame lighter is it is difficult to keep it lit when there is any wind around. So I think the Edrig’s problem was not applying the lighter in the right place, plus the Ronson filler valve seems to fill the gas tank better/fuller. I watched the new owner of a John Sutton Jedrig (his first Accucraft) using the Roundhouse light up procedure (his loco fleet is mainly Roundhouse). The first time it lit there was a nice tall flame out of the chimney which did not pop back, and on the 2nd attempt the liquid gas ignition ended up with flames coming out of several places. I advised him that Accucraft recommend lighting up with the smokebox door open first, and leaving it open for up to 2 minutes.

Hopefully taking part in an Open Day next weekend so look forward to more experience with Technique 2 on my Ragleth.

Chris Cairns

[mikewakefielduk@btinterne]

Hi Chris

As posted elsewhere as well, this what works for me:

Firstly, as recommended in the Accucraft instructions, I always ready my locos in the same sequence of events: Gas then Oil then Water. This presumably gives the liquid gas time to settle in its tank while I'm performing the other tasks.

I then open the smoke box door and crack open the gas valve. It often splutters so I wait for it to stop spluttering. I don't wait a fixed number of seconds as sometimes the spluttering stops immediately and on others it can take 10 seconds or more. Then I shut the gas valve and wait for any gas to clear.

Put my flexi neck lighter into the smoke box and click it on.

Crack open the loco’s gas valve and the burner pops back every time.

I splashed out and bought a Zippo flex neck lighter rather than an Aldi 99p special. The Zippo flame is much fiercer (burns part blue) and doesn't get blown out.

I also used to have real trouble getting my Lumber Jack to light until I adapted the smoke box door to make it openable as well. Now it too lights first every time.

The loco I had real trouble getting to pop back was a Regner Willi. I got so frustrated in the end I sold it. At Peterborough this year I met the guy who bought it from me. He gets it to light first time, every time by holding a coffee stirrer over the air hole on the burner before applying a flame to the loco’s chimney after cracking open the gas valve (and no, he doesn't have three hands, he's just a lot more dexterous than I am).

[Andrew]

Just found this thread and it's very useful, thanks.

I'd always wondered why Accucraft recommend "Gas, Oil Water", my instinct is to put the water in first because that's the one you really don't want to forget, but that makes sense...

My Regner Konrad is a swine to light too, it sometimes takes several goes and I often end up with a six inch flame roaring out of the chimney to start with... Unfortunately I think creating an opening smokebox door it beyond my current capabilities, so I'll just soldier on - I always get her running in the end!

Cheers,

Andrew.

[mikewakefielduk@btinterne]

Making an opening door for a Regner Lumberjack/Konrad/Vincent/etc is pretty simple as you already have a detachable plate in the front.

I borrowed the idea from here: http://www.gardenrailwayclub.com/worksh ... door-hinge

Mike

[IrishPeter]

Usually for Accucraft locomotives:

1. Gas
2. Water
3. Oil
4. Clear off for half an hour and do something else whilst the gas tank warms up.

If reluctant to light check airflow to burner. I often have to ease it back a bit when using straight butane to allow more air into the fire tube.

Peter in AZ

[Boustrophedon]

It would seem that someone actually reads this forum: The gas tank has been redesigned. Instead of having the filler valve sticking up through the water tank, it now resides on top of a tall vertical extension of the tank sticking up into the cab. The gas valve now sticks out horizontally backwards in the cab from the top of the extension. It has the usual great big ugly knob on the end of it though. A nice brass wheel is needed I think.

The vertical extension of the gas tank seems to trap a bubble of gas so that there is no more chuffing of the flame on light up. The gas valve is very stiff and sticky in a rubbery sort of way, if you know what I mean, you move it a bit and it just springs back on the rubberiness of the seals. A smear of grease may solve this.

Other changes are: Ragleth now comes with chopper style couplings and the drain valve for the lubricator is now a lovely little brass cock. Can we have one like it for the blow down valve as well please?

[Chris Cairns]

It would seem that someone actually reads this forum: The gas tank has been redesigned.

Not quite, as this subject was raised with Accucraft UK at the 2014 Llanfair Caereinion Show (not by me).

Ragleth was redesigned for 2014 by fitting larger side tanks to make fitting 2 channel R/C easier. It has an in cab gas tank which was previously fitted to other locos like Caradoc, Mortimer, etc. This tank still has the design fault of the gas filler valve being above the gas regulator outlet, and I know of Caradoc & Mortimer owners who can have problems with liquid gas on initial light up. Compare it with your Bix gas tank where the gas filler valve is below where you unscrew/screw the gas burner pipe to the turret.

Ragleth now comes with chopper style couplings

Been standard fit for some time (my 2013 Ragleth was fitted with them, but I've fashioned centre buffer adaptors to replace the chopper in the holder).



Your sticky gas regulator valve is due to the 'O' ring fitted. Put some vaseline on that 'O' ring. It does however allow for fine adjustment by pulling out or pushing in that gas regulator valve without turning it.

Having watched other Accucraft owners unnecessarily flooding layouts by using the water check valve, I've adopted the Roundhouse practice of just removing some water from a full boiler, in the case of my Ragleth 53 mls.

Chris Cairns

[Boustrophedon]

Thanks Chris. I used lanolin on the gas regulator o-ring, it's a little more viscous than vaseline, but it seems to have worked.

I think the gas tank is an improvement, a gas outlet on the top of a large flat topped reservoir will take longer to be free of liquid than one in the top of a narrow tube. I certainly had none of the pulsating effect that Chris Bird shows on is video. The downside is that it makes fitting a driver more difficult as there is a great big gas knob obstructing the side of the cab.

I am not sure about the chopper couplings, They look to be zinc diecastings and hence not very strong, but I like the idea of them. On the other hand I have just bought a load of steel centre buffers with chain from Roy Wood. You pays yer money...

[Chris Cairns]

If you do retain the chopper couplings I've found from some recent running at exhibitions you need to ensure the chopper blade is removed when coupling up to centre buffer couplings. Otherwise the chopper blade has a habit of dropping down onto the centre buffer coupling and causing a unique style of buffer lock on curves.

Chris Cairns