Billy cab mod- finished!

[Keith S]

Hi guys,

As you know, I own a Roundhouse "Billy" that I built from kits. I would have built a "George" had they been available but at the time there was the Lady Anne, and Katy, and I liked the higher-mounted boiler on the "Billy"- I thought it was better-proportioned.

What I wasn't counting on, was how much the oval spectacles would bug me. I love this plucky little engine, but there has always been something "off" about its appearance from the front. Not drastic, mind, but just a little ugly. To me, despite its supposed "Koppel" lineage, the Billy looks pretty English other than those oval openings. I do still like the engine's overall shape.

Anyway, I was thinking of buying a set of Swift Sixteen revolving glazed spectacles, blanking off the oval holes in my engine's spectacle plate, and installing the Swift Sixteen ones in their place.

To this end, I used some sellotape to affix a pair of washers to the engine's spectacle plate to see what change the round spectacles would make. I think it look fairly promising. I like it much better than the oval ones.

I would appreciate as many opinions about this as possible, just to reassure myself that I won't be maiming my engine!



AFTER:

BEFORE:

[JMORG]

Have a look at some of the small Barclay locomotives (which Billy is also inspired by). Alot of them had the oval spec. but some didn't. Have a look at the Sandstone railway Barclay (it currently has a tender) if you want to see the Round spec.
If you want an anglicized Billy then the Round specs would be a good start! Another change could be the smoke is dart? And possibly the dome?
Swift Sixteens specs are great by the way! Dad has a set that he (eventually) plans to fit to an engine.
By the way, your billy looks great and I think the round specs will look really different!

[RylstonLight]

Sorry Keith

Want to give you feedback but can't bring myself to vote as I think it would be misleading!

I hate the top picture BUT I suspect what I don't like is the very thick effect of the washers as spectacles. I realise that the washers are not the finished article, but if you can try a thinner version it might resolve your uncertainty.

Andy S

[Keith S]

I agree Andy, they're the only suitably-sized washers I could find: the others were too small. I agree it looks daft with the great thick washers... you have to squint at it to see what I'm getting at. The proper spectacles would look quite a bit better. Maybe it would be better to draw them on a piece of card and lay it over the spectacle plate.

I've seen a few Koppel and/or Barclay engines on the internet with round spectacles too, I think they were in India.

I just find that the more details I add to the engine, the more glaring the great empty holes in the spectacle plate are. And I've always liked engines with the circular ones.

[rebelego]

Do it!
You can always get a new cab if you regret.

[TonyW]

If you do fit the S16 spectacles you need to be aware that the right-hand one cannot swivel as the gas tank is in the way.

[Chris Cairns]

I think as proven elsewhere there was mix & match with locomotives over the years, particularly when they were rebuilt.

Look at JMORG's 'Umhloti' example above. Here she is originally in the Andrew Barclay catalogue -



In preservation the original boiler was beyond repair, so a longer boiler was fitted, necessitating the chassis to be extended, and she had oval spectacles fitted -

http://www.narrow-gauge.co.uk/gallery/s ... &cat_id=69

Problems with weight distribution affected the trailing axle so she was converted to a tender locomotive, moving the water & coal into the tender, and gained circular spectacles as seen in JMORG's photo above.

There is talk of rebuilding her again closer to the original Andrew Barclay configuration.

Chris Cairns

[Alan P]

Go for it!
There must be hundreds of standard Billies out there, be nice to see a different one

[funandtrains]

I can't say I like your crude top pic but the reality may look better. The safety valve sticking out of the dome bugs me more, why could they have not done the same as Pearse and but in inside the dome with dummy realistic vales on top for the steam to come out. Also as I have said before the outside frames bug me as the only O & K and most other German builders only build outside frame well tanks loco for metre gauge or larger. The best conversion I have side is putting an Accucraft Caradoc body onto a Billy.

[Keith S]

Yeah I've never found it looks much like an O&K in the first place because of that, it's clearly not got a well-tank. I've always considered it more of a "generic" model. I agree the washers look silly, they were just to help me visualize a different shape!

Thanks for the opinions so far.

[GTB]

I would appreciate as many opinions about this as possible, just to reassure myself that I won't be maiming my engine!

Looking at the O&K locos that ran in Aust. there was no standard cab front. Most had vertical oval windows, but we also had some with horizontal ovals, some with round and some with square windows.

The round window version of an O&K has a bit of a squint, as the windows are rather small and close together. This one from a Queensland timber tram is typical.....

http://www.zelmeroz.com/album_rail/qld/ ... thleen.jpg

The various builders that built O&K copies during and after WW1 varied in window shape.

The Barclay E class that Billy is roughly based on were built with oval windows, like this one....

http://ferrocarrilespr.rogerseducationa ... b-1500.jpg

The Fowler copies generally had no windows at all and not much in the way of a cab, although a few had the spectacle plate option.....

http://www.zelmeroz.com/album_rail/qld/dp1/dp_rp-fr.jpg

The Baldwin copies had square windows. I think some of these ran in Canada, but this one ran in Queensland.....

http://www.zelmeroz.com/album_rail/qld/twc/tw_086a.jpg

Billy is a freelance model, so there's no right or wrong answer, just what appeals to you.

Regards,
Graeme

[KjellAn]

This O&K built for a 2 foot line in Norway has oval windows.
And my Billy below looks alright too me.

[Dwayne]

I'm one who prefers four sides on windows. Found this nifty photo of a Billy conversion in 7/8ths scale (1:13.7)

[kandnwlr]

Forgive me O&K but I have sinned. Round windows on my 7/8" ... It was a Special for the UK market, Your Honour, honest.

[cncmodeller]

I think your problem is, its not the oval spectacles but the fact that the cab is too low and they dominate the front cab sheet, If you look at the Talyllyn Railways No6 Douglas the cab is relatively tall as is the chimney and looks quite neat.
I know it may sound like a big job, but I took a blow torch to my Accucraft Superiors cab because the spectacles were in the centre of the cab sheet and cut a new brass sheet and moved them up to their correct position and re-soldered, which by the way was soft soldered so It was easy.
Its one of the reasons why I don't like any of the Roundhouse freelance designs as they look out of proportion and odd and can never understand why they don't just copy a real loco.

[Keith S]

Thanks for your honest answers guys. I personally am a proponent of "freelance" engines, and I selected the "Billy" initially because I like the look of the fat smokebox and boiler, and inside frames: Both NOT features of a small O&K locomotive!

The washers I admit were a poor attempt to visualize the round spectacles, so here is a picture of a "Billy" I just discovered that has them!

I really like it. I think I will change my engine's spectacle plate to have round spectacles, but unlike Mr. Foster's engine, I will retain the strange little tanks, so it will still have a touch of "Billy"-ness about it.

I hope this works out. If I end up destroying the cab in the attempt, I'll just buy a "Simply 7/8ths" 16mm .body and be done with it.

[JMORG]

That looks like a Katie body! Maybe that could be an alternative?

[Keith S]

I'm not sure but I think there must have been some surgery involved because the boiler on a Katie sits lower on the frames than the Billy, or at least that's how it appears. It's hard to tell what Mr. Foster did here but you're right, the cab is from a Katie, he says as much on his face-book page.

I think I will be able to change the spectacles on mine without having to buy a new cab.

[Keith S]

Well guys the swift sixteen brass etchings have arrived for the spectacles, as well as a cab roof hatch and one of the new coupler/buffer things for the front beam. I'm not going to change the rear buffer I don't think, maybe later if I really like how the front one turned out.

Thanks again for volunteering your opinions. I see the poll has come out 50/50, which I find amusing. I'm going to go ahead with the installation, and see how it turns out. I rather like the revolving spectacles and the holes in the cab sheet need something in them at any rate, they look like empty eye-sockets without glazing.

Those of you who didn't think the retro-fit was a good idea, I think you will be reassured that there won't be very much difference, I don't think. The Swift Sixteen spectacles take up the majority of the oval openings, and the brass inserts I shall have to solder in to make the opening circular are not very large at all. I think the change will be subtle. I'm actually kind of optimistic that you will like it when it is finished!

[RylstonLight]

Look forward to the finished pictures.

Andy S.