Garden Railway Forum

I have just got off the phone to Ivan at IP about ways to fix my broken Jack and he mentioned to me that he is currently designing and trialling a new battery loco that will be able to output about 3/4 of a horsepower. Now for 16mm that sounds like a beast!
and whats more it will be in the same price range as Jack was!
He said if everything goes to plan it should be out for the Llanfair show.

Right, thats me saving up my money!

Thanks for letting us know, Paul.

Sounds like a worthwhile 'investment'

I hope its a Funkey.

Mmmmmm powwwwerrr!!! I likes the sound o' that!

from what he said I'd be suprised if its a funky Will.

He made it sound as though it would be mostly made from metal talking about going getting a new laser cutter just for the job.

Also he made it sound as though you can alter its performance saying that people could add as much weight to it as they liked to make it put down more power.

I hope it has a good strong gearbox then! Maybe some of the new motor/box parts will be usable on Jack's & Jessie's?

I still can't quite seem to get this round my head, is the 3/4 horsepower to scale, or in proper terms, if it is, then what the hell is in it!

With my mechanical engineering hat on, I reckon it must indeed 3/4 of a horsepower, scale of this would be something very small and power is something that dosn't really scale anyway. Would be a pretty big motor though (or more likely 2 motors)

He didnt give too much away, but i rekon whatever it is will eventually weigh a hell of a lot as we were discussing a loco can have as much power as god but if it hasnt got the weight to put it down its useless

3/4 of a horsepower isn't that much really, well, not in real world terms. Horses aren't very efficient. It'll make for an impressive model though!

Endless, Nameless wrote:3/4 of a horsepower isn't that much really, well, not in real world terms. Horses aren't very efficient. It'll make for an impressive model though!

I'm going to pen my thoughts.  Feel free to debunk them.

the modern take of a Horsepower is totally different from what was originally established.  When we talk about Horsepower these days we aren't talking about the equivalent equine power!

3/4 HP is nominally around 560 watts.  My 7 1/4 loco is fitted with twin 600 watt motors, and those are small but not small enough by a long way (they are about mamod loco size) for a 16mm loco so I'm also going on the basis that he's probably got twin motors or even three to get the power down.

Is there really any point to this though?  I mean its not like we're trying to pull a person along.  That much motor power will probably just not get used on a 16mm railway.  Another factor is batteries, your going to need ample Ah (amp hours) to power all this, and if you have that much motor/drive where are the batteries going?  We see battery locos (good ones) today that have one model boat motor type job (Como Drills!) and will pull bucket loads on that.  I've seen LGB locos pull massive loads and I'm pretty certain they don't have 560 Watt motors.  The largest motors MFAComoDrills do are 80 watt rated, and they are big lumps, my Dad's tug has one and its massive, too big for a "scale" loco.  

Just as proof of point, my best mate built a semi scale London Transport tram in 3 1/2" gauge.  4 wheels, twin motor, one motor to an axle.  He used these 80 watt motors (largest he could fit) and the tram pulls its driver around on 160 watts at 24 volt quite happily.

160 watts = 0.214563534 horsepower

560 watts = 0.75097237 horsepower

I'll be very interested in this project as it progresses and I'd love to be proved wrong, but it seems like a bit of a steam hammer to crack a nut so to speak.

well LGB locos (the smaller ones) struggle to pull themselves up my railway so I need a powerful battery engine to be able to recover my dead steamer from the bottom of my line.
and from what he said you add your own weight to make it have better adhesion which is where most battery locos are going wrong. the only battery engine i have seen rival the strength of a steamer is the roundhouse cricieth castle and that weighs about the same as a steamer so i think its all in the weight.

you can add as much weight as you like.

Doesn't make it a good thing however.  If your designing a loco you should have a rough idea of what you want it to do and then build it to suit.  Adding weight to a loco that wasn't necessarily designed for it is going to wear it out quicker, put excessive load on the transmission and heat up the electrics quicker due to the higher current draw from the motor, it does after all have to move itself to start with!

Yes true but i think IP know what they are doing.

He did make the Jack and the Jessie and they aren't too bad. My Jack just struggles with my dead steamer at the minute but it is uprated. on level track it would have no problem.

MoelygestLR wrote:well LGB locos (the smaller ones) struggle to pull themselves up my railway

Really? Which ones? The "Otto" and the feldbahn locos are pretty feeble (realistically so in the case of the Feldbahn, and Otto is just a toy really) but the Stainz will pull a house down. Add a bit of weight and it'll pull down a mansion...

The weight issue depends on how well engineered (or perhaps over engineered) the engine is. On some engines, a bit of weight will kill it easily; I suspect IP's older engines fit into this category, as for that matter does the LGB Feldbahn loco I mentioned above.

The LGB Stainz, and certain other locos in the range, will easily cope with quite a significant amount of added weight. For those who read Garden Rail the Linz- Gstadt Bahn was featured a while back- steep switchback gradients with all LGB power, mostly weighted, pulling heavy trains. He certainly didn't find any problems caused by the added weight.

Criccieth Castle is also built on brick outhouse principles with a massively over engineered drivetrain; this means they can make it weigh a ton and hence it'll pull anything. Try the same with an Accy Baguley and watch those lightweight gears strip...

Oh I agree about the gears bit by the way.

Well yes the stainz i have slips too much. So it can barely pull itself. I havent ran it in a long time as i dont have track power anymore. might consider selling it or maybe use the chassis under a different loco and convert to battery power. adding a bit of weight at the same time.

Iv spoken with Ivan at IP and what he told me about his new loco is comletley different from whats been told here.
Im not giving anything away though because it would be bad manners to betray his trust like that, but I will say expect pictures of this new loco to be released around christmas (well thats the target)

when did you last speak to him?

I spoke to him about 2 weeks ago and he said Llanfair show was the targeted release date, bit of a difference there.

and he didnt say not to tell anyone. he didnt give too much away really. im looking foreward to finding out more about this beast though.

MoelygestLR wrote:when did you last speak to him?

I spoke to him about 2 weeks ago and he said Llanfair show was the targeted release date, bit of a difference there.

and he didnt say not to tell anyone. he didnt give too much away really. im looking foreward to finding out more about this beast though.

several hours ago

must be a different loco he was talking about, I told him a new and incredibley strong loco was rumoured and he told me something very different to what youv said.
oh goody 2 new locos

he didnt say not to tell anyone but if I was in his shoes I wouldnt want people Id told to go blabbing.

Regarding the Stainz- does it still have traction tyres (or a traction tyre), and does it have skates? The skates can stick, putting too much downwards force on the track and taking a larger share of the loco's weight (as opposed to just enough to keep them pressed on the track), reducing the weight over the wheels.

Check the skates are free, and try adding bit of weight. How old is it roughly- metal or plastic coupling rods/ valve gear?