Elmdon Heath Light Railway (was EHLR: A small start)

[hussra]

The only thing I think Mr Victor Isle might ping you on is the lack of advanced starters beyond the junction in the 'westbound' direction, and 'east' of the loop points in the eastbund direction.  However, as you are using stacked starters at the platform end, that suggests a late-1880s signalling installation, which gives you an 'out.'  Advance starters were not always used then.  Provided it got past the inspector then, and there has, in your line's story, been no major messing around with the layout since, you are home free.

I think advanced starters on single lines are a pretty modern sort of thing - many more on preserved lines than there would ever have been in "real life" (whatever that is).

The fun moves will be a train off the branch running round before heading to Rhiw Lleidiog, and vice versa - but I think so long as the driver has the staff we'll be OK. Until a train off the branch has to run round and cross an up train from Rhiw, or we have trains splitting and combining...!

[TommyDodd]

Looks pretty good to me. I prefer brackets to stacks but that's just a personal aesthetic view. You could even go full-on L&LSR and have No11 as a right-hand arm, IE on the "wrong" side of the post. My only little bit of pedantry to offer is that I can only see one end of 7 and 8 points. Even over the water, these should really be paired with a trap since they separate sidings from passenger running lines.

[hussra]

Looks pretty good to me. I prefer brackets to stacks but that's just a personal aesthetic view. You could even go full-on L&LSR and have No11 as a right-hand arm, IE on the "wrong" side of the post. My only little bit of pedantry to offer is that I can only see one end of 7 and 8 points. Even over the water, these should really be paired with a trap since they separate sidings from passenger running lines.

Thanks for that - will have a ponder over how 10/11 should be configured. I confess to liking it this way, though.

Yes, the sidings probably do need trap points. Whether I can raise the enthusiasm to build same remains to be seen (though Hendre siding has a stub trap point).

[IrishPeter]

It should not be too bad either way. You will just have to allow plenty of time for the branch train to arrive, run round and then shunt its stock into the other platform before the connecting train arrives.

Splitting will be simple enough. Leave branch portion on the mainline east of the station, draw the mainline train into the platform, run the pilot engine round onto the branch train, then either flag it (if you find yourself doing this a lot you should really install a calling-on signal) to draw up behind the mainline train, or waiting until the mainline train departs, then drawing the branch train into the platform to load. Any train arriving from the mainline or branch will just have to wait until the mainline is clear before proceding. Alternatively, if there is a separate branch engine adjust accordingly.

Joining portions is going to be the pain in the neck with the layout and signalling you have, as it means bending the no shunting with passenger abroad rule that applies in the UK. I would suggest that the branch train arive from the west run round and shunt into the westbound platform, wait for the mainline train to arrive, then shunt its stock onto the rear of the main train. In real life it probably would have banked the main tain into the terminus, or followed it light engine or hung around for the next train.

Peter in AZ

[spooner]

Are doing it to EHLR rules?

[IrishPeter]

Looks pretty good to me. I prefer brackets to stacks but that's just a personal aesthetic view. You could even go full-on L&LSR and have No11 as a right-hand arm, IE on the "wrong" side of the post. My only little bit of pedantry to offer is that I can only see one end of 7 and 8 points. Even over the water, these should really be paired with a trap since they separate sidings from passenger running lines.

It depends on the date of the installation.  Stacks were by far the more common up to about 1890, and were still used in tight spots after that.  Stacks are easy enough to read - they go Top Left to Bottom right, hence the old Peel line home signal - a three arm stack - read as follows - top arm = Peel arrival Platform (#3); middle arm Platform 5; lower arm goods yard, which were distributed from left to right in the station.  The right hand post controlled the Port Erin line and had towo arms - the top one for the arrival platform (5) and the bottom one for the goods yard.

Arriving from the mainlines into the departure platforms was rarely done and had to be flagged; departing from either the Peel or Port Erin arrival platforms was covered by Tommy Dodds and was done regularly post WW2.  Indeed by the 1960s most trains departed from the arrival platforms (3 & 5) to save shunting.  The Ramsey portion usually stood in the Peel arrival platform.  The Peel portion stood on the departure line and then was shunted into arrival road about 5 minutes before departure.  However, if arrival/departure times were close together, the platform faces would be used for their designated functions. Peel only trains tended arrive and depart from the Peel arival platform   The old South Line departure platform (6) was used mainly for the 'early' morning departures, with the arrival platform being favoured for departures the rest of the day.  Hence all the old Ivo Peters films of trains departing from the arrival platforms at Doulas.  Although the single line working methods and "out-station" signalling arrangements were archaic, the installation at Douglas was up to code by the standards of 1891/2.  One IMR oddity is that authority to depart was conveyed by possession of the staff or ticket, so trains would often be rolling before the signalman pulled off the starter.  

As the sidings in your track plan open straight onto the mainline, so catch points would have been the norm.  However, I always find myself leaving them out as they tend to cause, not prevent, accidents in 15mm scale.  

Also, please remember to shunt into what is notionally an unoccupied block section unless you are absolutely sure there are no "bowler hats" (management, BOT inspectors, etc.) within 20 miles.

Peter in AZ

[Marquis DeCarabas]

Is this looking half-plausible, or are there any better suggestions?

*wanders in*

Now then, Tooban proper didn't have economics, but did have fixed distants...

I can't say anymore 'cos I'm too bogged down with switch diamonds at TyB - I have a suspicion that I've seen a diagram somewhere of Tooban in an RSCo stylee...

Unfortunately, you (RAH) have probably been nearer my L&LSR/L&BER notes than I have for a long time...

Bear with me, and I might be able to sort something out about the original - once I've sorted out the inner up home and switch diamond at TyB.

Plans look really fab, BTW.

15 lever frame, no spares from memory, numbering was the other way around with 1 being the home from Burnfoot.

[IrishPeter]

You are right - Tooban Junction had a standard Railway Signalling Co. frame and box. I would imagine that it dated from the late 1880s when the Bundoran line was converted to 3' gauge from BG. Worked distants were the norm then even on quiet country backwaters. My recollection of Irish practice is that fixed distants were relatively rare, usually being reserved for awkward spots like blind level crossings.

<tangent>
On my own lines I have tended to favour unworked distants as it removes the need for a long signal wire that things like dogs can get tangled up in.
</tangent>

Peter in AZ

[Marquis DeCarabas]

You are right - Tooban Junction had a standard Railway Signalling Co. frame and box.  I would imagine that it dated from the late 1880s when the Bundoran line was converted to 3' gauge from BG.  

New build IIRC.

Worked distants were the norm then even on quiet country backwaters.  My recollection of Irish practice is that fixed distants were relatively rare, usually being reserved for awkward spots like blind level crossings.

Having quickly done a bit of STFW, there are too many rods for economics, if the Scrimgeour photo shews the entire frame then there cannot have been worked distants and economics, because that would require 16 levers.

When I've de-boyded TyB (Tommydodd and RAH know what I'm on about... ) I will have a look at Tooban, bear in mind that I'm sailing under a rather heavy wind after a successful bout of Single Oxford at St Dunstans this evening, so I might be talking complete bolleaux - fortunately, unlike the long debates about Tryfan Junction in another place, I have enough evidence (and bits out of the drawing office at Fazakerley) to hopefully put something concrete together.

[hussra]

Bear with me, and I might be able to sort something out about the original - once I've sorted out the inner up home and switch diamond at TyB.

Thanks chaps. Would be interested if anything about Tooban does show up, but not essential.

Just to put things in context, here is my current notional "imaginary world" diagram of how the railway fits together. The line joins the slate quarries at Gallt Llwyfen to the main line at Rhiw Lleidiog, with loops at Hendre and Llanfair ar y Ffos. Llanfair is also the junction for a branch to another (as yet unnamed) slate quarry.



This could lead usefully to some entertaining shunting movements at the junction, especially if we have slate trains splitting and combining, or alternatively slate workings off the branch running round before heading down to Rhiw.

In the garden, on the other hand, the branch actually becomes a connecting line enabling the continuous run:



At present the line runs from the Tanyperth area, through Hendre, over Beidreirin level crossing, to Pont Siriol, which is very nearly at Llanfair. Come the spring the focus is on completing the line from Pont Siriol to Llanfair, after which the Llanfair-Tanyperth section will need to follow to complete the continuous run.

Rhiw Lleidiog would be the next target after that; a notional position route for the upper stretch of the line to Gallt Llwyfen is shown but there are other possible places that part of the line, especially if we end up demolishing the air raid shelter...

[hussra]

Don't faint, chaps, but the EHLR extension to Llanfair ar y Ffos has started! The line grew by 3' 6" yesterday, allowing the blue diesel to become the first loco to run completely over rather than onto Pont Siriol. This takes the line right up to the site of Llanfair top points.

[Narrow Minded]

Great stuff Richard - the last photo just about sums it up perfectly.
Keep watering it, and it will grow!

[Big Al]

Nice looking tressel bridge

[hussra]

Yes, it wasn't until after connecting camera to computer that I realised the watering can was in shot!

Glad you like the bridge, Big Al. I spent 5 years living quite close to the trestle bridge over the Rheidol at Llanbadarn, a lovely spot and it turned out the dimensions were pretty much spot on for a replica over our garden path. (The river has mysteriously dried up this year.) I think the bridge build itself was around pages 1-3 of the thread; yesterday's progress was the short section between it and the hedge.

Spent a little time earlier measuring out where the posts need to go for the next ten feet or so of trackbed, where it widens out into the station as per the track plan on page 7; no. 9 points are just beyond the buffers in yesterday's photos.

[hussra]

Crumbs, is it really ten weeks since I posted here?

Work has continued on the construction of Llanfair station. Half the track layout is down, and the trackbed for the rest just awaits the felt.

Here the bits are just laid out loosely to see if it all fits...





And now a bit more permanently down.



Phew - the scissors crossing fits.





This is as far as this line will go for now - eventually the main line towards Rhiw Lleidiog (at the house end). The branch curves around rather sharply behind the ferns and will form the continuous run.



Another post coming up with events at the other end of the line...

[Narrow Minded]

Nice work Richard - looking forward to this all getting "settled in"

[hussra]

Nice work Richard - looking forward to this all getting "settled in"

The rather rampant growth on this side of the garden will see to that over quite a bit of this section, especially nearer the house! It would all have been, shall we say, somewhat easier if I'd got this section (especially the bit behind the ferns and honeysuckle) built a bit earlier in the year.

Alongside the station itself will need a bit more concealing and blending in, as you say. Perhaps some low planters, or removing a few of the pavers and inserting box bushes or similar.

[Peter L]

I really love the way your line just seems to fit with the rest of the garden. That's just so difficult to pull off with an elevated line - but you've really nailed it.

[hussra]

Meanwhile at Tanyperth, the other end of the line just now... when we bought the house we inherited a "pond" (half barrel), which then a couple of years back gave up the idea of being watertight. This is just after lunch on Thursday:



And 16 minutes after that photo:



A bit of sketching out ideas - hopefully a bit of pond either side of the bridge:







That's Llanfair you can see in the distance:



Next job is just to finish off the tricky little stretch between the railhead and the scene above. Yes, I can fit into that gap to retrieve trains - will be leaving access from both ends. Not ideal, but the agreed basis on which we're proceeding is to fit around what's already in the garden. The mound is actually largely made of bricks from the now-removed chimney breast indoors.



On inspection, it looks like we might be able to fit in a (sharply curved) reversing loop around the mound in addition - not one for just now, but worth leaving as an option for next year.

[LnBmad]

Just read the whole thread Richard! Great work! Any chance you could give me a lesson on track work?